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Rev Matching vs. Double Clutching

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Old 08-31-2016, 11:51 PM
  #31  
Veloce Raptor
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Originally Posted by MSR Racer
This is so tru. I have two 996 cups cars and one has a Sachs OEM clutch and the other has a Tilton clutch which has a larger disc. The blip timing required are very different between the two.
Exactly. I have had similar experiences. Versus my old M3 racer car versus my C7 versus a SPB versus an E car versus a 997 GT3 RS and on and on
Old 08-31-2016, 11:55 PM
  #32  
Coochas
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Originally Posted by Deadeye
Watching the NASCAR race at Road America last week they had a camera pointed at the feet of one of the experienced road course drivers. He was left foot braking and blipping the throttle to down shift with no attempt to use the clutch at all. I assume this is tough on the gearbox, but is this a common practice in these cars or just the road courses?
I saw that as well Dennis. I drive a dog box in that very fashion but I didn't think NASCAR used those.
Old 09-01-2016, 12:55 AM
  #33  
Dave928S
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Originally Posted by noturavgm
One of my favorite vids if you've never seen it. Brocky single clutches 5-4, and doubles 4-3, and 3-2. Nice and smooth with mechanical empathy for a long race. All with one elbow on the door
One of the best drivers of all time (killed in a Targa event a few years back). He could drive a car for hours on end, even when it was disintegrating, and still achieve record times lap after lap, and win races. I was in the pits with him, after a race nearly a decade before the vid below, and I commented that his car sounded like a bucket of bolts as he came in. He casually mentioned that the gearbox was ****ed, and that he'd lost two gears late in the race. He still won, because of his unbelievable ability to drive even a damaged car to the absolute limit. When he got up on the podium, and was asked how the car performed, he said "it ran perfectly ... a credit to the boys". Never made excuses, never blamed anyone else, just drove the wheels off whatever he had .. and was a really nice guy ... RIP.

Old 09-01-2016, 11:01 AM
  #34  
bpu699
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So, you guys "blip" the throttle...? How is that different then "pressing" the throttle...?

On a downshift, when braking, I try to

1) Depress the clutch
2) heel/toe and press the accelerator down a bit and keep it pressed down
3) Slide into the next gear
4) Release clutch

How/why is "blipping" better?

For those that double clutch, how in the world do you do that quickly? I can do it in casual driving with no issues. But on a track, going into a fast decelerating corner, double clutching with a 930 gearbox takes an eternity... I find myself missing the optimum shift point and often am not done with the shift until way past the apex... WAAYYYY PAST... Or, you have to stop accelerating much sooner, so that doesn't happen.

With a newer fast shifting gear box, sure. With a 915/930 box, how?
Old 09-01-2016, 01:02 PM
  #35  
mark kibort
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what "blippng" does , is get the RPM quickly to just below redline and as it falls there is a point where the layshaft and main shaft find sychronous speed and the resistance to put the car in gear is mimimized, so it slip in. after doing this a while, its a timing event, and you get a feel for it. if you dont "drag" the clutch as I have suggested, then the blp does the same thing for the release fo clutch forces on the tires. in other words ... you want the rpm to be higher vs lower than the synchronous speed. Higher will be less forces on the tires upon release, lower, increases the forces on the release that can possibly upset the car .

double clutching takes too much time, even for someone that is good. however the very best at it, can be pretty darn quick at it as we saw on the old Assie V8supercar video. The more time with the car out of a gear, the worse, in my opinion. Plus, there is no need if you can drag the clutch as i have suggested. (same effect as a double clutch but no loss in time)

attached is a mir mortal doing it very welll in a 928. stilll way too much time in my opinion and too much going on , PLUS there is no need with other techniques to accomplish the same effect.


Originally Posted by bpu699
So, you guys "blip" the throttle...? How is that different then "pressing" the throttle...?

On a downshift, when braking, I try to

1) Depress the clutch
2) heel/toe and press the accelerator down a bit and keep it pressed down
3) Slide into the next gear
4) Release clutch

How/why is "blipping" better?

For those that double clutch, how in the world do you do that quickly? I can do it in casual driving with no issues. But on a track, going into a fast decelerating corner, double clutching with a 930 gearbox takes an eternity... I find myself missing the optimum shift point and often am not done with the shift until way past the apex... WAAYYYY PAST... Or, you have to stop accelerating much sooner, so that doesn't happen.

With a newer fast shifting gear box, sure. With a 915/930 box, how?
Old 09-01-2016, 01:14 PM
  #36  
mark kibort
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
For me blip timing varies car to car, partly due to differences in throttle sensitivity and flywheel spin up and spin down
yep, you have to learn the timing of how fast the RPM can rise and fall to how long it takes to engage the gear . there is also race vs street timing too. racing usually requires the fastest possible engagment

Originally Posted by winders
Again, heel/toe does nothing to reduce transmission wear. You have to double de-clutch to reduce synchro wear.
It can if you drag the clutch a little as i have suggested. harder to do on your car i imagine, but very easy to do on most all street cars. this way, through neutral, you blip, the slight drag on the driveline spins up the layshaft so that engagement is easier and there is little wear on syhcnros
Old 01-11-2017, 03:43 AM
  #37  
O5C4R
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Wrong spot doh



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