M758

Oh yeah

Wear... Toyos

I currently got my 3rd set of toyos on my 944-spec race car.

First Set
Stated Full tread - Not heat cycled
Heat Cycles = 48
Est track Miles = 1090
Track days = 13
Status = For car storage. I think they may have given up. Still have rubber, but an off at Turn 9 at Willow has made me wary of their grip. (ie scared to use them again)

Second Set
Full Tread - Heat Cycled on track (one 20 min session then left for 24 hrs+)
Heat Cycles = 26
Est Track Miles = 650
Track Days = 8
Status = Great shape very fast, my primary set of tires!

Third Set
Shaved to 4/32 - Heat cycled on track (2 20 min sessions)
Heat Cycles = 2
Miles = 40
Track days .5
Status = New Back -up set.


Note my last Set of Kumho Victoracers I got 15 heat cycles, from 4 track days at estimated 316 miles before I corded one tire.

My best from a set of Kumho's was 500 miles when I was still doing DE's.

FYI ... I push the car much harder now that I racing than when it did DE since...well DE's are not timed!

Hubert

I'm looking at the 225/50/16 size. I got the toyo price off of 1010.tires, and the mpsc and hooiser price off of tirerack.com.

Again, thank you all for your input. It's greatly appreciated.

Tom W

I have 6 days worth of DE and 3 autocrosses on my MPSCs and they should last for another day or two of DE without a problem. I'm happy with their performance and they do give a little squeal on occasion at the limit. While great for DE, they are suboptimal for autox as they never really get a chance to warm up in a 60 second run followed by 10 minutes of waiting.

I've also driven 1.5 DE days on my SO3's and found they did well but not as well as the MPSCs. I used up a set of the ECSTA V700's in one season of autocross and found they got greasey pretty quickly, so I did not want to use them for DE. Others are happy with the Victroracer V700 for DE and autocross.

For mixed autox and DE use with an R-compound tire, I would use the Victoracer V700.

The 964 I just bought has the Yoko A032R's on it and they are the noisiest tire I've ever heard on the highway (except for trucks).

DJF1

Let's see. Almost 2 full club racing weekends, and 6 DE weekends later I switched the MPSC's and the fronts have still some tread left. For DE I believe you cannot beat the longetivity of the MPSC. For ultimate laps the Hoosier is still king. It will be interesting to see the new Hoosiers and how long they last.

Tom...is your 964 a non sunroof car that was sold by PAP cars last year???
If it is...I missed buying the car for days literally!!! I love the color!!! Congrats by the way!

Z-man

Jakermc: will this be your very first track day? If so, I strongly suggest you stay away from r-compounds until you get a little more experience under your belt.

Hubert: how many days do you have on the track? Why r-compounds now?

Speaking of R's, I am using the Pirelli P-Zero C's (IIRC, they don't yet make the Corso in 16's, that's why they still make the C for people like me! )
Tire size: 245/45-16 at all four corners on my 944S2. It's my first set of R's, so I can't really compare them with anything else.

However, wear has NOT been an issue: so far I have 10 DE days and 4 days of autocross on them, and they are wearing very well. I estimate I can get at least another 6 DE's and a few more autox's out of them before they show chords. (Note: I do have an extra set of 225/50-16's that I use for the fronts in autox).

To give you an idea of how much I 'punish' my tires, I'm in the intermediate (White) run group for DE's, and in autox, I went undefeated in my class this year (shameless plug )

Very nice tire: excellent grip, and they do give some warning at the limits of adhesion. I just hope they continue to make them when I need replacement!

Just my $0.42,
-Zoltan.

Z-man

Oh, one more thing: for DE's, tires like the MPSC's, Pirelli P0-C/Corso, and the Toyos typically don't need to be shaved, unless, of course, you're looking for that 0.02 seconds per lap!
-Z.

DAR951

That's WAY too expensive for the Toyo.

I know it's on the wrong coast for you, but as a place to start take a look at the Bob Woodman Tire site (www.bobwoodmantires.com) as a reference. They supply track-side service for a number of East Coast Series, and list RA-1's in your size for $162.00... you should be able to do at least that well locally on the West Coast. Toyo's should be considerably cheaper than all but maybe the Kumho's.

Hubert

z-man: i've got about 20 track days, and have recently (last 4 events) been running in advanced. why r cmpds? don't know if i can give you a credible reason, but i suppose it's out of curiosity, and a little bit of wanting to have an edge (as I'm always on street rubber). essentially, i'd like to give it a shot, and from all that i've heard, and witnessed, it's a considerbale jump in grip from street tires -- i suppose I just want to get a feel for it. why did you decide to go to r cmpds? is there a "sign" i should be looking for in my driving (not being at all sarcastic, i just want to go about this 100% the right way).

dar951: i'll give them a try; however, i contacted their store a little bit ago re: bbs magnesium wheels, left my name, wheel specs and number, but never got a call back. put me off a little, but i'm sure they get 1000's of calls/day with similar requests.

thanks again for all your help
regards,
hubert

Z-man

Hubert: In my 'unexpert opinion,' You have plenty of track days to go with the R-s. If you're got 20+ days, you're most likely at your street tire's limits. For me, the biggest 'test' to see if you are ready for R's is this: when on street tires, you are able to keep up with and pass 'faster' cars that are running with R's in your run group, then it's time to consider going with the sticky rubber.

Why did I switch to R's? Well, I had been running on street tires, but they were toast, and I had an extra set of rims sitting in my garage. I spoke with my region's track chair and a few track stewards & instructors, and they felt that I was 'ready' for the r's: I had enough experience on the track to benefit from them. So after the first two events this year (Lime Rock and Pocono), I took the plunge. They are definately a benefit when it comes to autox, so that was another reason to switch over for me. (I had run about 4 seasons of autox on street tires, btw.)

I am a firm believer in having DE/autox beginners stay with street tires and a stock setup: all too often people switch to r-compounds and a WTF suspension so they can go faster. Yeah, they go faster, but develop bad habits along the way.

While I do run with the sticky tires, my car's suspension is still 99% stock. (Ok, I have a thicker sway bar in the rear, but that's all!) My car may lean like there's no tomorrow, when I get around to upgrading my suspension, hopefully I will have developed a smooth driving technique.

Be sure to post your final choice for r-compounds, and your experiences with them!

Regards,
-Zoltan.

DAR951

Was thinking of Woodman mainly as a reference (good web site w/ prices) since they're based out here (SC). While my experience with them has always been good, I actually buy most of my rubber from a great local shop (Radial Tire MD)... you ought to be able to find someone similar out there for whatever brand/compound you finally decide on... ask around and look for who's providing track-side race service as a pretty good indicator of knowledge and competitive pricing.

Once you're hooked on track rubber, a good relationship with your tire supplier makes a big difference in getting the best "stuff" (fit/grip/wear) at the best price. For example, Radial Tire will bust, flip, and remount/balance track rubber as many times as you like/need, for "free" (included in the original price)... very important to get the most life out of a set... try that at Tire Rack.

jakermc

No, its not my first track day. I'm currently driving as a 'Solo Novice'. I decided to switch to R-compound after analyzing my run data captured by my DL-90 data logger and talking to my last instructor about what I need to work on. My line is VERY consistent and smooth. There are two things keeping me from picking up speed right now - 1) heel-to-toe downshifts and 2) confidence to take higher speeds into corners. (OK, there are lots of other things to work on, but these are the next two to tackle)

The heel to toe issued should be resolved by adding a pedal extension on the 911. I've been practicing a bit in the Boxster S and don't have a problem, but can't comfortably reach in the 911.

I think the R-compound will help with gaining confidence carrying speeds into corners. There is one turn on the track that I have clearly reached the limit of my street tires, but 2 others turns that I know I am holding back on. Using R-compound, for me mentally, will be like an instructor sitting in the car with me telling me to go faster. I know its mental and I know there are other ways to get over this, but for me I think this approach will work. I also decided to buy new 7x9x16 rims to replace my 6x7x16 set up and it seemed silly to buy another set of street tires since I kept the other set for rain/street driving. If I'm buying new tires, it might as well be R-compound since I am at least borderline ready for them.

For me its all bout just having fun, not competing. I'll enjoy trying out the R-compound and know I still have street tires mounting and ready to go if I need to retreat back to them.

mark kibort

RA1s hands down for DE or club racing. stick within .5 seconds of hoosiers. (proved at Laguna by the Holbert 928 race car) and the hoosiers actually wear out much faster. The RA1s I have have 3 pro weekends with world Challenge GT and Ive commuted to the track on them, and Im going to Sears point this weekend for a Porsche racing club event.(NASA) they slide a little more than hoosiers, but are just as fast. Only drawback is that each tire is 4-5 lbs heavier than the hoosier. Im runnng both again at sears this weekend.
MK

Brian P

You sound exactly like me at the beginning of this season. I had an extra set of rims, so why not get track tires?

It's definitely a lot of fun, and allows you to keep up with other people. However, I wouldn't magically expect the tires to help you enter turns at the limit. Yes, you'll enter them faster than you will with your street tires, but if you aren't at the limit yet, you won't be with the R's either. That's only because the driver makes that decision, not the tires.

For what it's worth, I had the exact some problem for a lot of the season - how to enter turns faster? For me, it was an answer of braking earlier and lighter. That allowed the car to be so much better balanced as it entered the turn and allowed me to really feel whether or not I could go faster on the next lap. Furthermore, since I was braking lighter, I could control the entry speed a lot better than I could when I was really stomping on the brakes.

Hubert

Okay, so I've decided on the RA1's. My question now is: do I have them heat cycled and /or shaved, or just run 'em cold and at full tread? These are DE tires; any curing that needs to be done, etc.? I don't really have the luxury of running them for 1 session, and then leaving alone for 24hrs at a track day; what if I run them for a session, take them off and let them cool for ~ 2hrs.? Is that good enough? Thanks again everyone, hubert.

DAR951

Good choice... Don't worry about heat cycling the RA-1's, just put them on and run them. They seem to harden very little, if any, from heat cycles.

As for shaving, can't remember (and now can't see if it's in your signature) what car you're running, but unless it's pretty heavy, I'd recommend not shaving. It'll save you a little money, let you drive comfortably to the track on your track tires (if that's what you want to do), and let you run well in the rain.

I run them full depth on my 951 (not exactly a light or easy on tires, ride) drive on them to the track (at least the close one) and am quite happy even if it's wet.

Good luck and enjoy.