Building Braking Skills--Coaching? AX? Drills? What?
07-26-2016, 02:36 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Bachoura says he constantly saws the wheel testing the front grip. He runs right up front, so there must be something to it.
07-26-2016, 07:47 PM
#48
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Speedy Dan Clarke is terrific!
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Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
07-27-2016, 12:24 AM
#51
I've raced spec Miata for about 16 years now and have done pretty well at it from time to time. The comments above about Hawk pads are mistaken, as I have had good success with the tried and true blue 9012 compound and the DTC 60 compound. Some people will mix-and-match front and rear for the bias effect but as much time as you were leaving on the table, I would not mess with that at this point. I use the same compound on all four corners and have won pretty competitive races doing so.
Some of my thoughts are to take some tires that are pretty much done and deliberately brake to lock up and release. Punish those tires and turn them into polygons Or better yet punish those tires and don't turn them into polygons but occasionally get that lovely whiff of tire smoke you can see and smell. Deliberately get a sense of the pedal force and feel of decelerating at which lockup begins. For me it's always been a sensation through the feel in my feet and my vestibular system. And for me repetition and practice is the only way I can replicate and get consistent on threshold braking. Many a tire suffered horribly in this process as did my wallet. But for me, if you don't do it you can't possibly get what it feels like and if you don't do it a lot, you can't possibly get consistent and replicate it.
To build confidence on what to do and where to do it, it is helpful to overlay data between you and a faster driver who is good in the brake zones and see how crisp your transition from accelaration to brake looks in the deceleration rate on your speed trace. All that said, it's a whole lot different doing than watching or measuring.
For me, I have always had to go past the best and fastest practices and dial it back in order to demonstrate how aggressive you have to be. Others have more finesse. You need to decide your own style, but I suggest practicing some aggression is a good way to begin to sort that out.
Some of my thoughts are to take some tires that are pretty much done and deliberately brake to lock up and release. Punish those tires and turn them into polygons Or better yet punish those tires and don't turn them into polygons but occasionally get that lovely whiff of tire smoke you can see and smell. Deliberately get a sense of the pedal force and feel of decelerating at which lockup begins. For me it's always been a sensation through the feel in my feet and my vestibular system. And for me repetition and practice is the only way I can replicate and get consistent on threshold braking. Many a tire suffered horribly in this process as did my wallet. But for me, if you don't do it you can't possibly get what it feels like and if you don't do it a lot, you can't possibly get consistent and replicate it.
To build confidence on what to do and where to do it, it is helpful to overlay data between you and a faster driver who is good in the brake zones and see how crisp your transition from accelaration to brake looks in the deceleration rate on your speed trace. All that said, it's a whole lot different doing than watching or measuring.
For me, I have always had to go past the best and fastest practices and dial it back in order to demonstrate how aggressive you have to be. Others have more finesse. You need to decide your own style, but I suggest practicing some aggression is a good way to begin to sort that out.
07-27-2016, 12:43 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
Great topic and if anyone can master this its YOU Dr911!
Hey Veloceraptor - I'll second that you're a gentleman at least when it comes to giving hot laps in a white whale at the Glen
Here's my question: can you (VR) FIT in a SM? I'd like to see you try!
Hey Veloceraptor - I'll second that you're a gentleman at least when it comes to giving hot laps in a white whale at the Glen
Here's my question: can you (VR) FIT in a SM? I'd like to see you try!
07-27-2016, 09:11 AM
#53
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I've raced spec Miata for about 16 years now and have done pretty well at it from time to time. The comments above about Hawk pads are mistaken, as I have had good success with the tried and true blue 9012 compound and the DTC 60 compound. Some people will mix-and-match front and rear for the bias effect but as much time as you were leaving on the table, I would not mess with that at this point. I use the same compound on all four corners and have won pretty competitive races doing so.
Some of my thoughts are to take some tires that are pretty much done and deliberately brake to lock up and release. Punish those tires and turn them into polygons Or better yet punish those tires and don't turn them into polygons but occasionally get that lovely whiff of tire smoke you can see and smell. Deliberately get a sense of the pedal force and feel of decelerating at which lockup begins. For me it's always been a sensation through the feel in my feet and my vestibular system. And for me repetition and practice is the only way I can replicate and get consistent on threshold braking. Many a tire suffered horribly in this process as did my wallet. But for me, if you don't do it you can't possibly get what it feels like and if you don't do it a lot, you can't possibly get consistent and replicate it.
To build confidence on what to do and where to do it, it is helpful to overlay data between you and a faster driver who is good in the brake zones and see how crisp your transition from accelaration to brake looks in the deceleration rate on your speed trace. All that said, it's a whole lot different doing than watching or measuring.
For me, I have always had to go past the best and fastest practices and dial it back in order to demonstrate how aggressive you have to be. Others have more finesse. You need to decide your own style, but I suggest practicing some aggression is a good way to begin to sort that out.
Some of my thoughts are to take some tires that are pretty much done and deliberately brake to lock up and release. Punish those tires and turn them into polygons Or better yet punish those tires and don't turn them into polygons but occasionally get that lovely whiff of tire smoke you can see and smell. Deliberately get a sense of the pedal force and feel of decelerating at which lockup begins. For me it's always been a sensation through the feel in my feet and my vestibular system. And for me repetition and practice is the only way I can replicate and get consistent on threshold braking. Many a tire suffered horribly in this process as did my wallet. But for me, if you don't do it you can't possibly get what it feels like and if you don't do it a lot, you can't possibly get consistent and replicate it.
To build confidence on what to do and where to do it, it is helpful to overlay data between you and a faster driver who is good in the brake zones and see how crisp your transition from accelaration to brake looks in the deceleration rate on your speed trace. All that said, it's a whole lot different doing than watching or measuring.
For me, I have always had to go past the best and fastest practices and dial it back in order to demonstrate how aggressive you have to be. Others have more finesse. You need to decide your own style, but I suggest practicing some aggression is a good way to begin to sort that out.
07-27-2016, 09:27 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Yes, i can fit in some of them. It all depends on the particulars of the cage, actually. I love driving them.
Keith's comments above are very good.
07-27-2016, 09:39 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Late to the party but I really like Keith's comments....
That being said, get a coach; at least that works for me. Veloce Raptor (aka Dave Scott) has been my coach and every time he gets in my car we work on braking. Every time before I go out I try to visualize the lessons and guidance and imagine the "feel" of doing it right. Every time I go out I work on brake release probably more than I work on brake application. I don't want Dave to feel me coming off the brakes and I want to use all four tires getting on to the brakes. My goal is also how can I get the car settled so I can squeeze the gas sooner. Get the picture?
The only way I can do this is by getting a Coach in my car and getting me to where I need to be and then it's practice, practice, practice and visualization in between.
Thanks Dave!!!
That being said, get a coach; at least that works for me. Veloce Raptor (aka Dave Scott) has been my coach and every time he gets in my car we work on braking. Every time before I go out I try to visualize the lessons and guidance and imagine the "feel" of doing it right. Every time I go out I work on brake release probably more than I work on brake application. I don't want Dave to feel me coming off the brakes and I want to use all four tires getting on to the brakes. My goal is also how can I get the car settled so I can squeeze the gas sooner. Get the picture?
The only way I can do this is by getting a Coach in my car and getting me to where I need to be and then it's practice, practice, practice and visualization in between.
Thanks Dave!!!
07-27-2016, 09:44 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
Thank you, Tom 
07-27-2016, 06:48 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Correct! In addition, for those SM's that I can get in, I always practice getting out before we head in track
07-27-2016, 07:24 PM
#60
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Data with comparison to best practices will make it the shortest. He isn't trying to get the last hundreth of a second, he's trying for 12 seconds. I'm sure reading a book and comparing his data traces to a good one would get him a significant increase. Then it's about practice.
I've used several other coaches besides Chris, including Veloce Raptor/Dave (he's great also), and am a big believer that DE instructors should be using pro coaches to fine tune their driving skills and attain some good info that would benefit their students. Pro coaching isn't just for those racers looking to shave a few hundredths of a second.