ProCoach

Kudos to Schattenbaum! I wasn't even there and I'm still hearing how good a time everyone had.

Four wheels over the verge lines is what some pro orgs use.

Scrape the drain plug off on the curb, if you want to...

joeykid

Peter, In all due respect, I think you missed my point. I specifically left pro racing out of my commentary as I do not think the same set of rules applies to Pro racing as club racing. To throw in a comment about Pro racing and the conduct of pro racing drivers battling for positions, money, jobs, livelihood and sponsorship is inappropriate.

2016 PCA Club Racing Rule #1 (clearly violated by car 213)

The PCA Club Racing Program is designed to be fun, safe and competitive. Good sportsmanship, honesty and a sense of fair play should exist at all times.

ProCoach

Joe, that was not my intent. Certainly not a slam against either pro or am racing.

Merely to point out that other organizations can and do define the racing surface in such a way that drivers KNOW what is legal and what is not.

There has been a movement worldwide within professional and amateur organizers to do this on a broader scale. In the UK and in Europe, there are pressure monitors under the curbing at some tracks and drivers are penalized immediately in practice, qualifying and in a race for "exceeding track limits." It was difficult for many to adapt, but most front runners now say that it results in better, fairer and safer racing.

My concern with your observation specifically is that "sportsmanship" is often a widely varied and subjective valuation of what is going on inside someone's head, not an easily enforceable and visually validated observation.

My experience is that there is such a wide variation of experience and expectations on the part of the stews and the competitors that this is going to be a common and widespread issue until it is addressed clearly and definitively.

ProCoach

One final observation. Drivers may grouse about "restrictions" like the establishment of stricter track limits, but AS LONG AS IT IS CLEARLY EXPLAINED IN ADVANCE, and EVERYONE that violates the "new" restriction is quickly and summarily penalized so NO ONE gains a real or perceived advantage, all is well.

Folks, by and large, are less concerned with rules and more concerned that the rules that do exist are unambiguous, clearly explained and enforced.

audipwr1

This IMO is silly - we build cars to the max (and for some beyond) of the rules, people hire professional coaches to give them data to drive a certain track beyond what they can figure out on their own and then people get all sideways when a guy runs max track width according the to rules?

I'd love to set track width rules, scares the crap out of me at BW when I basically drive over the dirt to clip one of the Apexs but that is racing

Tell me I can't drop wheels outside an apex curb and I'll adjust, otherwise I'll go wider and win is what it is

Pro or Am - I don't spend money to participate / I don't practice and improve my skills to get the participant award - I show up to perform to my maximum potential and ideally win

So if you have a problem with track rules I suggest having a dialogue with PCA - not Poo Poo'ing a guy who won using the rules

LuigiVampa

+1

Define the rules and I will abide to the fullest. That is the spirit of club racing. Other than that I am here to win.

danielyonker

Agreed. Like I said earlier, if it ain't illegal its legal.

Where's Kibort? He should weigh in on this.

mmuller

i know I wasn't being critical of Clarke and I don't think many other's where to.

I was being critical of the lack of clarity around using it from PCA and the fact that I don't believe it aligns with the spirit of Club Racing.

I do agree however that if its not illegal, its legal.

Astroman

Of course we are all wannabe "winners" here.
But for me, personally, I'll settle for 2nd place before I pass a fellow in-class competitor that I know and respect with a move like that, legal or not.

LuigiVampa

To be clear, I've come in second plenty of times because I wasn't willing to risk my car. Would I take that inside line at NJMP? No, because I think it is a low percentage move with a higher outcome of an incident.

That being said, when someone makes a bold, yet legal move, that I am personally unwilling to do, I have no one to be upset with. I just choose not to do it.

I'm unclear on the "violating the spirit of club racing" remark. If its legal, it can be done. If it is illegal, is shouldn't be done. I race people how they race me to the limit of the rules. Sometimes below what is allowed - never beyond what is allowed. I want to be respected - not feared as a loose cannon.

Lastly, I wish they would outlaw the inside line at NJMP, but until they do, people can pass me all day long there and I will continue to try to take turn 1 the "normal way" as fast as possible.

I'm here to win!

audipwr1

Right that is you personally, saying someone else is doing something illegal or wrong because you personally wont do it isnt the right approach

I know guys at the back who wont hit a corner at full bore because they are worried about wrecking, does that mean if I hit it at pace and pass them around it am I a bad guy?

What about if I use fresh tires and pass a guy on old tires?

If I risk my oil pan and wack a berm for a tenth? etc etc

Watch the Utah pirelli race weekend and the acura, guy was straight lining a corner that no one else could do because he set his car up to do it

danielyonker

Hey I looked up Luigi Vampa and Steve McQueen on Rennpoints to check out your record and found nothing. What gives?

sbelles

Waiting for the Rennpoints update. Somehow I'm vying for the zone 2 lead since the competition keeps quitting.

LuigiVampa

I'm like the devil - I'm known by many names! Mainly names that Rennlist would block if you ask my wife.

Gary R.

Was there a photographer there Friday or Saturday?