Bill Verburg

Use a small amount of brake paste on the edges of the pads, they have to slide smoothly past the ss pad holders. Best I've found is Würth Cu800 , but it's not going to be available at your FLAPS.

Also be sure that there isn't a build up of crud behind the ss pad holders, if crud builds up it inhibits smooth pad sliding, you don't really need lube behind the pads.

lastly keep the brakes clean. Flush them w/ water after track use then dry them before putting them away, drive them dry or use a leaf blower.

JRitt@essex

• Some pad compounds squeal at track temperatures, while others do not. There are a whole bunch of variables that determine squeal. Squealing is vibration at a frequency within the audible frequency range. Change the disc mass, change the stiffness of the upright to which it is bolted, change a dozen other factors and they will help determine if it will squeal or not. We get this feedback from customers constantly. They'll run X pad on their M5 and they're silent. Then they run that same pad in their 911, and they scream like a banshee. Tons of variables involved.
  
• Properly bedding-in your pads and discs almost always helps alleviate squealing. We did a video on bed-in a while back (#2 on this page): How to Bed-in Brake Pads and Discs. As you drive your car with cold brakes, the pad material will be gradually scraped off of the discs. Bedding-in is not a once and done situation. You need to stay on top of it as needed.

• We usually recommend avoiding any type of anti-squeal grease or goop. The problem with that stuff is that when it gets heated to track temps it can turn into a big sticky mess, and get all over your pads, discs, calipers, etc. Basically it gets 'cooked on' like food on a skillet.

scorcherjf

Ran PFC08's on the OEM rotors (drilled) for 2 seasons (about 20 track days) at various places and they always squealed under partial braking. At full braking they would be quiet, but as soon as I started modulating they would make noise. Switched to PFC11's this season (thanks Craig!) and also switched to Girodisc slotted 2pc rotors and they don't make any noise once bedded. Both 08 and 11 squeal like hell on cold rotors during street driving once you scrape off the existing material. That said, the 08's would usually start squealing halfway home from the track. The 11's actually stayed quiet for a couple days after the track day. Maybe the 08's are just noisier because they're endurance pads which are supposed to last longer and thus, more abrasive/aggressive on rotors?

One last thing is, whenever I switch from my OEM pads to PFC pads, I don't put the vibration dampener things back in. I'm not sure if this is correct or not, since with the PFC pads the caliper piston will directly be pressing on the back of the pad. When I first got the 08's, I left the OEM dampeners in and the result was terrible - the brake pedal was basically an on/off switch and any light pressure would be like full braking. I read around and saw that people said not to use them for tracking and that pretty much fixed it.

mark kibort

a couple of guys that were running these pads and saw your same results, bedded the pads as i suggested and didnt have the squealing on the street or partial braking pressure at the track. it seems to be the bed in technique that solves the problem, regardless of two piece or solid rotors. its all about getting those pads and rotor surfaces very friendly from the start. the endurance pads theoretically should be harder, so that might be an issue with squeal. i havent used any -08s or pagid yellows, but have friends with them on street cars with no squealing too.

3Series

Well I bedded the pads using the traditional method, 90 to 20mph about 10 or 12 times. The rotors were smoking. The next day at the track about 10 hours later, same squeal, there was no difference.

I had an instructor ride with me in a session, who used to compete in PCA Club and NASA, to help with my braking to see if I was doing something wrong. I did tweak my braking by braking a little earlier with much less pressure on the pedal. This helped my lap times but didn't make a difference on the squeal.

I'm just relaying my experiences. The pads have been great, no fade, strong braking, they just squeal on track.

I never expected them to be quiet on the street. Everything I've read and everyone I've talked to says all the race pads squeal on the street. Perhaps it's different if you live in a hot climate but I get all 4 real seasons.

Gofishracing

Mark. They only squeal when you use second gear.

mark kibort

i dont use brakes in 2nd, as engine braking is my main form of slowing control. actually...... you might be right, but i would never know it, right?

the 90 to 20 might do it, but thats not how i do it.. in fact, it might be part of the problem. you dont want to bed the pads and rotors at wheel speeds below 50mph. you might be glazing the pads too... (which would cause squeal)
if you are local, i can assist next time you have a pad swap. but if you can remember, try the 100 to 60mph and do it about 10 times with 10 -15 second breaks . rest for a few minutes going 60 to get the heat out and then try again. also dont dig into them like this from the start. get some heat in them first slowly. riding the brakes at 40mph for a few seconds is a good way to do that, alternating ride the brakes , rest for 10 seconds for about a mile. not hard, just to get heat in the rotors. then, do the normal bed in procedure.
I have not ever had pads squeal in all the years ive been doing this , on the street or on the track.

scorcherjf

What kind of rotors do you use? I have a colleague who uses PFC11's and says they don't make noise on the street, so I thought it would work with me but nope. We attributed it to his rotors being blanks and mine being slotted... not sure what else there could be.

mark kibort

Ive done this method for years now, with cast zimmerman, cast porsche genuine, holed, flat, and then two piece style using brembo and now im using racingbrake.com which are slotted. i also did this bedding process with blank (flat) cayanne rotors and smaller pad PFC11s . If the rotors are still new'ish, you might be able to bed them again, but if they are glazed , that glazing might have to wear away first.
when you do get a chance to do a new set of pads.. try the method i suggested and see what you find. i see no reason why it wouldnt work for you as well, especially if the rotors are near perfectly flat (not grooved from wear)

floatingkiwi

Bit of an older thread, but I'm having large heat problems with 08's on standard discs on a 997.1 C2S aerokit. I have GT3 ducting at front and NOTHING at the rear. Rears don't get hot, discs and pads last and last. IR gun shows lower heat levels when back in the pits.
BUT at the front, the pads are very aggressive on the discs with much cracking of the discs and baking of the caliper dust boots.


I am using the factory dampers/shims though and never really have any squeal as such! I use the 08's on street, track, everything.


BUT is this where all the heat is coming from? Should I leave the dampers/shims out of the front for track days?


Is the 11 a better pad for heat into the caliper? easier on rotors?

Bill Lehman

The 08 run hot but the real problem is lack of cooling. I had the issue with a 987 and the Olsen Motorsport duct solved it. I tried titanium shims and didn't notice an improvement. The GT3 ducts are cheap and probably better then nothing but don't solve the problem. I tried the 11 and it has more bite but I didn't care for its release, also wore faster.

floatingkiwi

Is it a cooler pad though and easier on rotors?

TrackDays247.com

Yes found the 11 a bit harder on the rotors as they should be, being a higher friction pad -

Your car has 996TT brakes as well, the thermal mass provided by the smaller rotors is a problem as are the calipers which are not much larger than base 996 brakes. I'd suggest a larger 350mm GiroDisc FRONT rotor set for better heat dissipation.

mark kibort

a lot of factors. you can generate a lot more heat with a pad that doesnt have a good coef of friction, because you want it do do things it cant do, and it overheats. the right pad for the style and speed of your driving will determine what pad you need . for what its worth, after 20 years of using stock rotors, i found that the 2 piece rotors lowered wear on rotor and pads by how the dissipate heat for even better braking characteristics. there are some pads that are biased strictly for bite and those can destroy rotors in short order (like ST-41s commonly used on nascar)

RichFL

Running a Cayman S at DE events mostly at Sebring. PFC 08's front and rear with slotted rotors. Mine squeal. I noticed some people are using 11's in rear and wondering if I should try that? I do get a fair amount of nose dive when braking hard.