Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

The Lambos cheated!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-23-2016, 05:24 PM
  #16  
analogmike
Rennlist Member
 
analogmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Danbury, CT, USA
Posts: 3,910
Received 99 Likes on 40 Posts
Default

I read from one of the teams that they used the exact restrictor that IMSA told them to run, but that it was never tested before the race so it was an unknown. I don't see how they could be penalized for using what IMSA told them to use... if this is true, I don't know...
Old 02-23-2016, 05:27 PM
  #17  
Carrera51
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Carrera51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Keswick, VA
Posts: 3,872
Received 156 Likes on 97 Posts
Default

It says that in the article Streak posted. Said IMSA approved the restrictor which was used in GT3 in Europe since there would not have been enough time to make and test another one. I wonder if there could be more to the story.
Old 02-23-2016, 06:07 PM
  #18  
Streak
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Streak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 7,896
Received 160 Likes on 76 Posts
Default

This is puzzling. It would seem that if IMSA would have told them to use that restricter based on data from other Lambos using that restricter. I can't imagine that IMSA would just pull it out of thin air. So IMSA must have surmised from the other series that the Lambo would be brought into compliance with that restricter.

So even with that the Lambos were too fast. Does that mean something else was going on with the American spec cars?

Last edited by Streak; 02-23-2016 at 07:39 PM.
Old 02-23-2016, 06:29 PM
  #19  
Circuit Motorsports
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor

 
Circuit Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,183
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Carrera51
It says that in the article Streak posted. Said IMSA approved the restrictor which was used in GT3 in Europe since there would not have been enough time to make and test another one. I wonder if there could be more to the story.
This. There must be a lot of politics at play. Daytona is a horrible place to judge balancing on and this reeks like another mfr got really pissed off and forced IMSA to hit Lambo hard.
Old 02-23-2016, 07:03 PM
  #20  
lordpantsington
Pro
 
lordpantsington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 533
Received 13 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

From http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12635...-24-violations

Although IMSA elected to omit the specific reason for the penalties, Lamborghini is known to have supplied a highly advantageous air restrictor for the V10 engine that powers its cars, and Audi's R8 LMS and R8 LMS GT3 models.

The restrictor was the same unit previously used by Audi on the last-generation R8 LMS. After IMSA performed baseline engine dyno testing on its GTD cars at the conclusion of the 2014 season, a number of discrepancies were found, and among them, air restrictors of different shapes were identified as the cause for power and torque outputs that did not match the series' BoP data.

With the discrepancy identified on the R8 LMS, IMSA and the German brand agreed to discontinue the use of the optimized restrictor which delivered more power than expected and, starting in 2015, the series had its GTD field working from a corrected BoP table.

Multiple sources have confirmed to RACER the source of the Huracán GT3's incredible speed at Daytona was due to Lamborghini's choice to fit its engines with the old Audi restrictor. One person with vast knowledge of the shared Audi/Lamborghini V10 engine suggested the improper air restrictor offered as much as 40 additional horsepower.
Old 02-23-2016, 07:43 PM
  #21  
Streak
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Streak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 7,896
Received 160 Likes on 76 Posts
Default

Even more interestinger

Even more intersting is that they passed pre and post race tech. Think an official was bought off?

That's the rumor I'm starting!
Old 02-23-2016, 08:40 PM
  #22  
Carrera51
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Carrera51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Keswick, VA
Posts: 3,872
Received 156 Likes on 97 Posts
Default

If the IMSA officials accidentally approved the old Audi restrictor, then that was there mistake.
Old 02-24-2016, 01:53 AM
  #23  
Ritter v4.0
Rennlist Member
 
Ritter v4.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nassau, Bahamas and Duluth, Ga.
Posts: 4,334
Received 97 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

If Lamborghini used IMSA approved restrictors they have plausible deniability, but they must have known that Audi and IMSA had issues over them and that they were taking a risk.

Then running + 1 second faster than the field when off the podium was clearly ill advised.

Just came across this- if true, an interesting strategy:

"There was a rumor at the race that everyone knew that the Lamborghinis were way faster than they let on beforehand and their intention was to win by so much that the penalties wouldn't make them lose the race. That obviously didn't pan out."

Last edited by Ritter v4.0; 02-24-2016 at 04:56 PM.
Old 02-25-2016, 10:30 AM
  #24  
The Brewmeister
Rennlist Member
 
The Brewmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hurley, NY
Posts: 3,078
Received 38 Likes on 33 Posts
Default

This issue is far from over, here's Lamboghini's side of the story.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/la...ex-24-penalty/

Lamborghini has stated that all five of its customer Huracan GT3s that took part in last month’s Rolex 24 at Daytona complied with IMSA’s technical regulations and respected the sanctioning body’s Balance of Performance process.

The Italian manufacturer and its GT Daytona customer teams were penalized on Monday for what IMSA has deemed to be a performance advantage in the WeatherTech SportsCar Championship season-opener, which saw the V10-powered GT3 machines noticeably quicker than the competition in the race.

It has resulted in all Huracan GT3s behind given a post-race penalty of five minutes, as well as Lamborghini losing all championship points from the opening round, as well as facing a $25,000 fine.

According to the manufacturer, all five cars passed pre and post-race technical inspection, with Lamborghini having worked with IMSA to achieve the car’s BoP with dyno testing prior to the Roar Before the Rolex 24, as well as providing data.

Giorgio Sanna, Head of Lamborghini Motorsport, has called for IMSA to comply closer to the FIA’s BoP process, which has been recognized as the worldwide standard for GT3 cars.

“Lamborghini Squadra Corse has always collaborated with IMSA with maximum transparency, in order to achieve a right BoP,” Sanna said in a statement.

“We are and will be available for IMSA technicians to achieve the performance required by IMSA. However, we hope more FIA components and technical parameters will be used in the future to ensure a right BoP.”

It’s understood the issue at Daytona stemmed from the type of air restrictor used on the cars, which allegedly gave the Huracan GT3s a performance advantage in the race. The cars had passed pre and post-race tech with its allocated air restrictor.

Six Huracan GT3s are expected to take part in next month’s Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring, with IMSA yet to declare the car’s BoP.
Old 02-25-2016, 10:56 AM
  #25  
NaroEscape
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
NaroEscape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,719
Received 530 Likes on 284 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by The Brewmeister

It’s understood the issue at Daytona stemmed from the type of air restrictor used on the cars, which allegedly gave the Huracan GT3s a performance advantage in the race. The cars had passed pre and post-race tech with its allocated air restrictor.

Six Huracan GT3s are expected to take part in next month’s Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring, with IMSA yet to declare the car’s BoP.
This absolutely pisses me off about IMSA - 1) OK, you passed inspections, but you were faster than everyone else so I guess we missed something...we don't know what, but you must have been cheating so we're penalizing you at random and 2)...and since we couldn't figure out what you did wrong, we can't figure out how to BoP your car and, yeah, I know there's testing going on, but we'll wait until the last minute to tell you (or not) then you'll have no time to test and optimize your car.

Oh...and if you're still fast? We'll penalize you again for no apparent reason...cause, you know, we can't have innovation going on here....

"Welcome to NASCAR Sportscar Racing, where we arbitrarily enforce the rules, make them up as we go along, stifle creative innovation, and try to dumb down every car to the lowest common denominator"
__________________
Bob Saville

Getting You On Track!
www.naroescapemotorsports.com
704-395-2975
  • Data Analysis & Coaching
  • Drivers Gear
  • Crew Gear
  • Car Gear

'07 SPC
'71 914/6 Huey
'04 GT3

Old 02-25-2016, 12:20 PM
  #26  
Cory M
Drifting
 
Cory M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,455
Received 74 Likes on 43 Posts
Default

It won't be the first time cars that pass tech inspection at the track are penalized based on engine dyno runs taken after the race. The same thing happened to Ganassi a few years back when they had BMW engines. The Dinan-built engines met all of the requirements and the letter of the law, but produced ~10 horsepower more than some unwritten gentleman's agreement. The team was penalized: Ganassi was fined $15k, they lost team and driver points, and they were given a 75lb weight penalty. Basically the same situation we are seeing with the Lambos, except the Lambo power advantage was up to 40hp by some accounts. It's better for the championship that the Lambo teams were penalized and adjusted after just one race. When Ganassi was penalized it was halfway through the season and they already had 5 wins. This isn't uncharted territory..
Old 02-25-2016, 01:30 PM
  #27  
Carrera51
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Carrera51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Keswick, VA
Posts: 3,872
Received 156 Likes on 97 Posts
Default

Why is it that we can't seem to get sports car racing right in the U.S? The car passed pre and post race tech. IMSA looks foolish the way this is being handled, unless there is more to the story than what we are all reading in the press. If they goofed and missed something, make the adjustment for Sebring and move on. Good grief...
Old 02-26-2016, 03:52 PM
  #28  
PPo
Drifting
 
PPo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto, C eh! N eh! D eh!
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
I don't think they cheated either. I just think they have a seriously fast car. That said, whoever made "the call to push it and see what the cars are capable of" is a fool, if that is what happened. THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN PRIVATE TESTING...not on international TV in front of every single IMSA official, where the natural outcome is a major BoP penalty.
I agree with VRaptor... but something seems funny here. If Lambo didn't cheat, than they where clearly sandbagging, and like Dave said, somebody was being a moron to suggest they go full out and set fastest lap.

But if Lambo did cheat, they would be even more stupid to show their hand when they did. So that means somebody was being an even bigger moron.

So it looks like either way somebody at Lambo is either a moron, or a big moron.

The fact remains, the Lambo's did not drive as fast as they could for the duration of the race, and nobody at Lambo has addressed that as being part of the strategy or something else. Which seems really odd.

Sounds like they are guilty...
Old 02-26-2016, 04:16 PM
  #29  
winders
Race Car
 
winders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Martin, CA
Posts: 4,472
Received 762 Likes on 385 Posts
Default

Of course they cheated. They used an "improper" air restrictor that Audi had used previously but were told to not use again. This wasn't a case of sandbagging. The BoP data provided to IMSA had to have been based on another restrictor or the data provided was just plain wrong. either way, blatant cheating which is why the penalty was so severe (lost all Manufacturer points).
Old 02-26-2016, 04:17 PM
  #30  
NaroEscape
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
NaroEscape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,719
Received 530 Likes on 284 Posts
Default

Still gotta disagree. I don't think they were "clearly" sandbagging. They were given/told to use a restrictor, it was approved, they used it. Were they fast? Yes. But if you used all approved stuff, why would you drive slow? Why would you think you would be penalized for the CURRENT race if you passed pre-tech? Future BoP adjustments? sure. But..isn't the goal to WIN the race? Not just drive around saying "well, we have a fast car, but we need to drive 8/10 and lose so we don't get penalized for the race we're in"...

Talked to one of the race teams..the ONLY reason they are not putting up a bigger fight is that it really didn't affect their finishing position. But...they are now questioning the the whole idea of even racing in IMSA... If they win a race, how do they know that IMSA won't come back with some penalty that they could never foresee? The term "Mickey Mouse organization" came up more than once in the conversation...


Quick Reply: The Lambos cheated!



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 09:30 AM.