The Lambos cheated!
02-22-2016, 05:12 PM
#1
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The Lambos cheated!
Well this is no way to start the season. I thought they had a bit of top end over the rest. I guess IMSA thought so too.
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/la...4-performance/
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/la...4-performance/
02-22-2016, 05:14 PM
#2
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So it sounds like they got caught sand bagging. I was wondering when watching them hang with the GTLM cars on the banking.
02-22-2016, 05:34 PM
#3
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They were multiple laps down and then somebody's ego couldn't be contained and he just HAD to do the quickest lap of the race. Moron...
02-22-2016, 05:40 PM
#4
^^^ Fantastically put...
Could not have said that any better.
Could not have said that any better.
02-22-2016, 05:59 PM
#5
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OUCH. Wow.
02-22-2016, 09:06 PM
#6
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here's one of the problems I have with IMSA BoP being set by using the results of the ROAR. Isn't the ROAR supposed to be a testing event? And any good team is going to take what they learned in testing, change things, then go faster. Since none of these Lambo teams had really done testing on a track like Daytona before, they had the biggest upside.
My point is that were they REALLY all sandbagging at the ROAR, or did they all figure something out that happened to make them all better? (I know they all shared data, I have a friend that works for Change) Read one of the comments on that article:
Interesting....
My point is that were they REALLY all sandbagging at the ROAR, or did they all figure something out that happened to make them all better? (I know they all shared data, I have a friend that works for Change) Read one of the comments on that article:
It is an interesting dilemma. We have 3 players in the game all with differing responsibilities. IMSA’s job is to prepare the rules and to enforce them. Lamborghini’s role is to build a car within a certain specification and adhere to a certain homologation spec. The team is responsible for making sure it is within the technical specifications set forth by the homologation and IMSA.
IMSA decided after the Roar to have Lamborghini build a new restrictor. This was not a homologated piece and this piece had to be custom built (remember they don’t follow the international SRO/ACO GT3 rules which work great for the rest of the world). In doing so they opened a can of worms they were not qualified to deal with (remember the SRO/ACO comment before). We will continue to see this from the countless other tricks used in GT3 IMSA hasn’t yet addressed. (one more reason SRO/ACO rules need to be in place)
Lamborghini wanted to use a known homologated restrictor but were turned down. So, they did as they were asked, they built a restrictor. One that met the technical requirements set forth by IMSA (hence why no technical penalty was issued, it didn’t break or bend any technical rules). By the time the teams got the new restrictor it was 3 days before the race, the same 3 days which proceeded to dump 5 inches of rain on Daytona. It would have been impossible for any team to know the pace of the car.
So, IMSA said build a restrictor, Lamborghini built a restrictor, and the teams ran the mandatory restrictor set forth by IMSA.
Hummmm, I wonder who dropped the ball here???
IMSA decided after the Roar to have Lamborghini build a new restrictor. This was not a homologated piece and this piece had to be custom built (remember they don’t follow the international SRO/ACO GT3 rules which work great for the rest of the world). In doing so they opened a can of worms they were not qualified to deal with (remember the SRO/ACO comment before). We will continue to see this from the countless other tricks used in GT3 IMSA hasn’t yet addressed. (one more reason SRO/ACO rules need to be in place)
Lamborghini wanted to use a known homologated restrictor but were turned down. So, they did as they were asked, they built a restrictor. One that met the technical requirements set forth by IMSA (hence why no technical penalty was issued, it didn’t break or bend any technical rules). By the time the teams got the new restrictor it was 3 days before the race, the same 3 days which proceeded to dump 5 inches of rain on Daytona. It would have been impossible for any team to know the pace of the car.
So, IMSA said build a restrictor, Lamborghini built a restrictor, and the teams ran the mandatory restrictor set forth by IMSA.
Hummmm, I wonder who dropped the ball here???
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02-22-2016, 09:09 PM
#7
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^^^^ Well said.
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02-22-2016, 11:15 PM
#9
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Reads like they were just ahead of the game, not cheating as such?
02-23-2016, 09:02 AM
#10
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here's one of the problems I have with IMSA BoP being set by using the results of the ROAR. Isn't the ROAR supposed to be a testing event? And any good team is going to take what they learned in testing, change things, then go faster. Since none of these Lambo teams had really done testing on a track like Daytona before, they had the biggest upside.
My point is that were they REALLY all sandbagging at the ROAR, or did they all figure something out that happened to make them all better? (I know they all shared data, I have a friend that works for Change) Read one of the comments on that article:
Interesting....
My point is that were they REALLY all sandbagging at the ROAR, or did they all figure something out that happened to make them all better? (I know they all shared data, I have a friend that works for Change) Read one of the comments on that article:
Interesting....
02-23-2016, 10:39 AM
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Dave, I agree with you totally that, like the system or not, they certainly brought way too much attention to themselves. But, and I am by no means offering valid excuses...if you're down a couple laps, or in the back of the pack, and you KNOW you have a fast car, how easy is it really to drive below its potential? Especially when IMSA has NEVER imposed this kind of post race penalty before? This is the Daytona 24, the biggest race of the season, the "watch" and everything that goes with it....if you have a shot to win, you take it.
The real question is...did they knowingly cheat or hide something? If so, then they are all stupid. If they honestly felt they followed the letter of the rules, why would they ever think they would be penalized? Easy to see in hindsight, but maybe they just figured the bop would be dealt with and adjusted in the future....like always...
The real question is...did they knowingly cheat or hide something? If so, then they are all stupid. If they honestly felt they followed the letter of the rules, why would they ever think they would be penalized? Easy to see in hindsight, but maybe they just figured the bop would be dealt with and adjusted in the future....like always...
02-23-2016, 10:55 AM
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Typically BOPs are done before the next race. The cars were new to the series. IMSA seems to have goofed and when they ordered them to install a restrictor, it wasn't enough. Do I agree they should have been penalized this way? No, unless there was outright cheating. As far as sandbagging goes, that's always part of the game. Would an NFL football team run all its new trick plays in preseason. Heck no. No one tips their hand before the green flag.
02-23-2016, 11:41 AM
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That's not a good comparison as sandbagging is not allowed by IMSA rules as BOP is set at the ROAR. Do the teams sandbag? They probably all work the system, but in IMSA you can't get caught.
02-23-2016, 11:54 AM
#14
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I am willing to bet that the Lambo teams did not cheat with intent.
We all know that you don't drive your 10/10ths while getting used to a new car and the start of a season. I would never tell my drivers to go 10/10ths at the Roar, in practice, or even qualifying if the cars where new, in a new series, and the first few hours of the season.
In the middle of an endurance race, and you are obviously behind, feeling confident with the cars, that's when I could plausible understand somebody make the call to push it and see what the cars are capable of...
Dave, I am not saying that your opinion is incorrect. I would just like to think that the people in these teams, with so much money and work behind it all, would be a bit more intelligent than the scenario you describe. However, you would know better than me as you have much more experience with Pros and the teams than I do. (FYI - The closest I came to a professional team is offering Alan McNish a beer at 9:30am in the morning at Mosport as he was jealous of the morning Guinness in my hand. He came to my campsite, and well... he is British, and that's all I will say.)
We all know that you don't drive your 10/10ths while getting used to a new car and the start of a season. I would never tell my drivers to go 10/10ths at the Roar, in practice, or even qualifying if the cars where new, in a new series, and the first few hours of the season.
In the middle of an endurance race, and you are obviously behind, feeling confident with the cars, that's when I could plausible understand somebody make the call to push it and see what the cars are capable of...
Dave, I am not saying that your opinion is incorrect. I would just like to think that the people in these teams, with so much money and work behind it all, would be a bit more intelligent than the scenario you describe. However, you would know better than me as you have much more experience with Pros and the teams than I do. (FYI - The closest I came to a professional team is offering Alan McNish a beer at 9:30am in the morning at Mosport as he was jealous of the morning Guinness in my hand. He came to my campsite, and well... he is British, and that's all I will say.)
02-23-2016, 03:06 PM
#15
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I am willing to bet that the Lambo teams did not cheat with intent.
We all know that you don't drive your 10/10ths while getting used to a new car and the start of a season. I would never tell my drivers to go 10/10ths at the Roar, in practice, or even qualifying if the cars where new, in a new series, and the first few hours of the season.
In the middle of an endurance race, and you are obviously behind, feeling confident with the cars, that's when I could plausible understand somebody make the call to push it and see what the cars are capable of...
Dave, I am not saying that your opinion is incorrect. I would just like to think that the people in these teams, with so much money and work behind it all, would be a bit more intelligent than the scenario you describe. However, you would know better than me as you have much more experience with Pros and the teams than I do. (FYI - The closest I came to a professional team is offering Alan McNish a beer at 9:30am in the morning at Mosport as he was jealous of the morning Guinness in my hand. He came to my campsite, and well... he is British, and that's all I will say.)
We all know that you don't drive your 10/10ths while getting used to a new car and the start of a season. I would never tell my drivers to go 10/10ths at the Roar, in practice, or even qualifying if the cars where new, in a new series, and the first few hours of the season.
In the middle of an endurance race, and you are obviously behind, feeling confident with the cars, that's when I could plausible understand somebody make the call to push it and see what the cars are capable of...
Dave, I am not saying that your opinion is incorrect. I would just like to think that the people in these teams, with so much money and work behind it all, would be a bit more intelligent than the scenario you describe. However, you would know better than me as you have much more experience with Pros and the teams than I do. (FYI - The closest I came to a professional team is offering Alan McNish a beer at 9:30am in the morning at Mosport as he was jealous of the morning Guinness in my hand. He came to my campsite, and well... he is British, and that's all I will say.)
I don't think they cheated either. I just think they have a seriously fast car. That said, whoever made "the call to push it and see what the cars are capable of" is a fool, if that is what happened. THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN PRIVATE TESTING...not on international TV in front of every single IMSA official, where the natural outcome is a major BoP penalty.
