breljohn

Ladies and gents,

I'm at a crossroad and would like to hear your opinions.
DE has been fun but missing something. Therefore, I would like to go back to racing. I'm considering either a Cayman Spec or a GTB1.

I would start DEing the car and make it evolve to a race car (I know it's cheaper to buy a built one but like projects and the idea to improve my skills as the car improves as well).

In order to buy the right platform, I would like your opinion as to which series enter. Cost is obviously an important consideration. Could someone tell me the ballpark cast for a season in both categories?

Also, which is more fun? Which has the biggest field (East Coast Canada).
Anything else?

Thanks a lot in advance!

mannym5

From what I've seen/read, to run at the top of GTB1 you will be spending a lot of money, especially if you don't buy one that is already built race ready.
The spec cayman class is a new class this year, but it is much easier to build one and it will cost you much less in the long run. To build you can simply follow the spec sheet on the 2016 PCA club race rules and regs document and build at your own pace. Being a spec class, I see it growing a lot in the near future and the racing will be a lot more competitive/fun than gtb1 which can be seen as more of an arms race to run at the top.
Right now the field size in gtb1 is obviously larger, but I'm sure the spec cayman class will catch on very quickly just like the other spec classes have.
There are a few guys building spec cayman's right now that I'm sure will chime in to give you a realistic budget to build one.

Tons of info in this thread.. I recommend reading through it.
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...class-spc.html

Frank 993 C4S

Spec Cayman: This is pretty much an Gen 1 (2006/2007) Stock H Class Cayman S that can be bought already built for $50 - $60k with a spec suspension and tire package. You can also buy a basic Gen 1 DE Cayman S with all of the required oiling and cooling mods already done, install a cage and run Hoosiers and work weight reduction from there. You might start racing in H Class until the Spec Cayman field gets bigger. Stock H is currently a decent class but it really depends on which part of the country you plan on racing. Spec Cayman is a developing class and there is some risk that it might never really develop.

My sense is that a racing weekend will cost you the equivalent of 1 - 2 sets of tires, a set of pads and a about $200 worth of fuel plus registration and lodging.

GTB1 is a whole different story. There are some very talented drivers you can learn from in this class plus the fields are relatively large. Those two aspects make it the most fun for me. There is only one person I know of that competitively races a Gen 1 Cayman in GTB1. This means that you are looking for a 2008+ Gen 2 car, preferably with PDK as PDK cars are much more competitive on most tracks (even with the 100 lbs extra weight penalty). If you prefer a 6 speed car, the Bosch Motorsports ABS is from my perspective a worthwhile differentiator to PDK cars (which cannot instal it since the ABS requires the wheel speed sensors that are used by the ABS). This comes at a cost of about $15k installed and gives you a clear advantage. Most people spend a lot of money on weight reduction to get to min weight. This includes carbon doors, hood and hatch. Carbon Fiber is expensive!! There are many ways to make your car more competitive through weight reduction, electric power steering, etc… It's all pretty expensive. Suspension and brakes are free - so there is tons of money to spend on that too. Tire choices are Yokohama or Pirellis with the later being more expensive and slightly faster.

For a race weekend, the fastest folks use 2 - 3 sets of tires plus…. Given your ability to run a more sophisticated suspension set-up, you will also spend more time testing, tuning and on set-up.

The above estimates don't account for the cost of your Pro Coach, track support by a race shop and any sort of $$$ damage allowance. Theoretically, you can buy a Gen 1 Cayman, start out in Stock H, run in Spec Cayman once the fields get larger and/or upgrade to GTB1 spec later. Subsequently you can install a 3.8l in that car and run in GTB3.

winders

If the tire chosen to be the spec tire for the Spec Cayman class can't last at least one weekend and be competitive on the second day, a mistake has been made.....

Gary R.

Well then..... that mindset isn't going to work!

Frank 993 C4S

That's pretty funny right there.

Coochas

There's no escaping costs with a p-car. I think by the time I was done with my 986, I could have bought, restored and driven a 935.

winders

That is even funnier.......

LuigiVampa

The Toyo slicks are supposed to last for a while. I tested them and after about 12 heat cycles I put in my personal best at Lime Rock.

Beyond that the answer to the OP's question is what Frank said.

GTB1 is for powerball winners and Spec Cayman is for lottery winners. Either way you will be shelling out the money!

jdistefa

The Spec tire is the Toyo RS1. One set per weekend is a reasonable assumption.

PM sent to the OP.

Frank 993 C4S

Good info! There is also the definition of "Weekend". For some that includes "Test and Tune" or some sort of 1/2 day DE plus Practice plus warm-up and two Sprint Races plus Enduro. Some just do Practice and Sorint Races. Your tire consumption will vary.

jdistefa

^ Frank - scrubs from previous weekend(s) are used for test days and practice. Fresh tires Saturday morning, scrub-in for warmup, 2 sprints, and enduro. Rinse and repeat.

stujelly

This is so true. I got in an argument with Mooty about GTB1 build costs so I did the math to meet his challenge. I almost cried. Someone here called GTB1 "an arms race" and that is so true. Around my house and with my racing buddies we use the ole fight club analogy.

GTB1 is cup car money per weekend. Dont let anyone tell you different. Engines and Transmission last about the same time just half the replacement cost. Either way, it takes money to be competitive in this class as there are also some amazing drivers there too.

breljohn

Thanks a lot guys for all that great info!
A few things. when i said cost is important, I meant that I'd rather go the cheaper route if the fun and experience is the same... I understand that Porsche racing isn't a winning proposition when it comes to money. I also meant that if it's cup car money as some mentioned, I could be considering a cup car instead. And finally, if running costs are cheaper, it means I can have more seat time which I think is the most important part of the equation at this point for me.

Another consideration for me is the gen 1 vs gen 2 debate and most importantly the reliability aspect of said gen 1... Blowing an engine in the first practice probably means no more racing that weekend which again goes against the idea of as much seat time as possible.

Also, nobody is mentioning building a GTB1 on the latest platform. Why? Is it becuase new cars are too expensive to start with?

Finally, I too am surprised by the tire choice for SPC. I was expecting something cheaper, longer lasting and that wouldn't put as much stress o the gen 1 engines.

Keep it coming!!

Frank 993 C4S

You asked about GTB1 and the latest 981 platform is classified in GTB2 and there are ample examples of cars that have been built. However, the run groups tend to be relatively small in GTB2 as all 911s have now been moved to GTB3.