MayorAdamWest

Being the voice of dissent, I hate politics and the overbearing rules of PCA. I would much sooner suggest Hooked on driving. Stories like the one above where they refuse to move you up groups are commonplace. Unless you are buddies with someone high up, forget getting any clear track. Also, PCA events cost more. Further, what's the fun of events with all of the exact same car? I love the variety of cars at events run by other groups. And don't give me any of that crap about safety for their stupid rules. HOD has just as low or lower of an incident rate, which is basically 0.

autosea

I fly in for events based out of Thunderhill Raceway. I find exactly the opposite.
Both GGR and PCA both run top notch events and I walk away with the highest regards and praise for their programs. In fact last year due to the lack of politics and overbearing rules in PCA I was able to, when I new the time was right, apply for and breeze thru the PCA Club Racing licensing program . Because I took the time to read and accept the rules as they are written I blend and enjoy. No drama!
As for pricing the two day PCA race weekend at Thunderhill was $399
I just got back from one day HOD same track no racing $299

docwyte

Nobody has mentioned NASA, is it not an active group out in No Cal?

onefastviking

PCA DE events also run with a 10 million dollar liability insurance policy to protect for various reasons, if instructing that means a lot. I know of many instructors that will only instruct with PCA because of this. I can't speak for HOD or other venues but in my area when I looked into it, PCA was the only one that ran with such a high policy. Some ran without any policy.

Info here.......
https://www.pca.org/sites/default/fi...MANAGEMENT.doc

autosea

You got it . Very active. Thats where NASA started. Home court.

audipwr1

That's a wrecking yard out here

Hella-Buggin'

I've run with several different groups and despite the slow moving up the ranks, PCA / GGR is still by far may favorite group. They run a tight ship and don't put up with people who aren't there looking to achieve the same goals. Drive like an idiot and get asked to go home.

As far as all being the same kind of car, that aspect is nice when you're starting out and trying to learn. If I get behind a car just like mine and see it enter and exit a corner at a certain speed on a certain line, I'm likely to try it and see if it works better than what I'm doing.

It's also a social experience and personally have found that I have a better social experience at the PCA events. Maybe because we share a common interest in cars, maybe because of similar economic positions?
I'm a pretty outgoing and friendly guy and I always meet people but I've made friends with GGR, not just buddies for the day.

Mahler9th

I have been active driving and instructing at competition driving events (AX, DE and racing) in Porsches in this areas since 1991. We have an abundance of opportunities to drive with different groups.

I haven't "seen everything" and I don't "know everyone," but I have a pretty big area under the curve.

Of course what makes sense for an individual depends on goals and objectives, often best considered short term with an eye on a longer term.

One consistent experience is that people with Porsches starting out wanting to learn the craft ,while having enjoyable experiences, can optimize their chances of success with a heavy early mix of PCA events-- specifically the GGR in the case of DE/track driving.

I have run with and/or instructed with and/or know key people in all of the groups listed so far in this thread. Like I said above, there is an abundance of opportunity.

Over the past decade+ I have seen a big dilution in knowledge and processes as the internet has created many new "truths." For many, picking one or several based on "keyboard" research is just fine. But for others, the real "center of the fruit" truths are important. For these folks with Porsches wanting to climb the curve in a fun, family-oriented and supportive environment, the suggestions I made earlier may make sense.

Hatzenbach

Amen to that
I do more than half of my track days with PCA-GGR. As I said above they are a very fun group very competent and very safe. And I can't praise the instructors highly enough.
The "slowest" group I find myself in is the one below "red" (which is the fastest). so I really can't complain. I also made some good friends there. The rest of my track days are mostly with NCRC as I enjoy unlimited passing.
But for someone new to the trade I'd absolutely would go with PCA.

mooty

mike you are too modest, you have been with every group worth driving in the norcal area! and i think your two posts were 99% on target! i just wish i have a car worthy to run with PRC and not get in the way bn the GT and GTL cars. (GTB-1 is a lonely world ;-)

haha, u know too.

perhaps you had a bad experience. i got into PCA in 2002-2003, back then there were a lot more rules and i HATE RULES. but i sat through all of them.

to say they dont move someone up is not correct. if you signed up in green but find you should be in red, after a chk out ride, they will move you , unless of course red is already full. in such case i am sure they will put you in red the next event.

i have to say the PCA doesnt always put the fastest cars in fastest group. it's easy to have a fast car, i have a few. and it's very easy to drive fast. what's hard is when things go wrong, doest the fast car/fast driver know what to do. goto youtube and see the first lap T3 at RRV, two car spun out, it was major mayhem. we saw, we react, we avoided. there was not contact. of course, some luck was involved. but THAT is what make a red group driver not how fast one goes.

i was at HOD, i know dev and ray when it was ray's day (12 years and counting). they run a great event. but sometimes, there are cars in the wrong group. there were 458 challenge and radicals that i can lap in a cayman when i have to lift to 50% throtle from T11 to T1 due to sound. i am not that quick. so i dont know if that's the right grouping. in that case, i would not move those drivers up. not bc they may be a tad slow. but rather, they will not have as much fun when they are driving their mirrors. some ppl think moving to a faster group is badge of honor. and passing everyone is fun. no so. my instructor drives a freaking slow miata, she (yes she) double clutch up and down every gear faster and smooth than i ever could. i just sit behind her and watch her lines. and every time i learn something new. in equal cars, i think i am faster than she now. but she's way smoother. so i stay behind and learn.

as an instructor, i noticed many ppl love open passing. personally i think it's the worst thing in DE. if it's a long straight, i will take the pass without point by. in turns, i will sit on your bumper until you give me a clear point by. b/c 75% of the time you need to assume the guy in front (no matter how good how fast he is) is likely BLIND. actaully even in straight, you should assume the guy in front is blind. i am not joking. have you been hit on track? well i have. straiight b/n T8 and T9 at TH. a miata decided to snuggle up to my door and push me off. there's a 4' high fence you will not see until you get there. i flew the fence. after that you will re-evaluate what is open passing.

unless i know you well and know how you drive, i dont open pass.
few guys in PCA, mike here, flt6996, earlyapex etc. i would go side by side by side into T5 at TH (no recommended) but i trust they will leave me just enough room so i dont eat dirt and trust me enough that i wont take them out....

so there is nothing positive about open passing. if you are indeed faster, you can certainly wait for 2 more turns and get me on the straight. if you are concerned about your lap time and flyer, you should do TT or start racing. DE is not a place to set lap record.

that's just me, after being punted off 2x on the straight!!!

oh, doborder, i passed him inside carousel. i know him, he knows me, we know how each drive and there was room, so that's open passing. but unless you are sure, wait for that point, it's either 2 seconds or $50,000

long post.... sorry.

audipwr1

What he said

Hella-Buggin'

To the OP...
I think your answer is to join PCA / GGR and have fun.

docwyte

Even the HPDE/TT groups in NASA have lots of incidents? That's extremely rare with NASA out here where I am. Basically all the organizations are equally safe out here, although the BMW club does tend to nanny you a lot more...

trygve

Good comments all the way around, Mooty. I have noticed that you are extremely patient even when the hippie car can pass my SPB easily.

ProCoach

I'm glad to hear that "all the organizations are equally safe out here." That's a great thing, but that is not true in other areas of the country and some of the clubs/organizations don't even know it.

I think mahler9th and mooty are on the money. From what I hear all the way across the country, GGR-PCA runs a nice program and David Ray is a stand up guy who "gets it."

NASA regions are franchises, and the culture is shaped by the owner/operator of the franchise. This can explain a lot of the variation between regions.

Start gently, and add speed slowly. It's a great ride!