New to tracking in the SF Bay Area
11-27-2015, 02:14 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
New to tracking in the SF Bay Area
Hi there,
Will you give me some pointers, please.
I am a total newbie in terms of tracking a car.
I now have a GT4 (with LWB
) and am ready to learn tracking.
What group/organization/school do you recommend me to join?
Laguna, Sonoma and ThunderHill locations.
Thanks,
Fabe
Will you give me some pointers, please.
I am a total newbie in terms of tracking a car.
I now have a GT4 (with LWB
) and am ready to learn tracking.What group/organization/school do you recommend me to join?
Laguna, Sonoma and ThunderHill locations.
Thanks,
Fabe
11-27-2015, 03:04 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Welcome.
I have lived in this area for nearly 25 years, and have been pretty active with AX, DE and racing throughout, exclusively in Porsches. Feel free to send me a PM and we can exchange contact info.
I am going to presume that you are serious about learning and developing skills, whether you ever intend to go wheel-to-wheel racing. And of course are serious about having fun.
I recommend as a step 1 that you join the PCA if you are not already a member. There are several excellent PCA regions in the SF Bay area. I have done events with all of them. Although my zipcode naturally places me in Diablo Region, I elect to be a member of Golden Gate Region (GGR).
I suggest making PCA events your starting "home base." GGR has an annual slate of excellent AX and track events. Diablo, Loma Prietta, Redwood, Monterey, Sac Valley-- all will likely have events to get you started. GGR probably has the greatest number. A heavy mix of early experience with PCA groups is extremely beneficial. I cannot emphasize this enough.
My next two target groups for would be Trackmasters Racing and Hooked on Driving. I know the folks that run these businesses and have watched them evolve from their beginnings. These groups, and others like them almost always have instructors available, and with proactive networking you can get lined up with some of their best folks, including those with Porsche experience.
The Northern California Racing Club is also excellent and I have know those folks for a long time too.
These three groups offer events which are excellent supplements to PCA outings, which in my experience are best leveraged after a few PCA days. There are other groups as well, but these constitute my top recommendations for a number of reasons.
I would consider mixing some AX in you early experience. Invaluable. One or more local PCA groups may still have an AX school where you can get a more immersive experience as you climb the curve.
As for tracks, highly recommend starting at Thunderhill. Accumulation of experience and development of skill works out well with a heavy mix of Thunderhill early on. Depending on your specific goals, Laguna and Sears Point are great places to have fun and to learn. In both cases, I recommend starting with PCA events at those venues.
And if you can mix in a PCA two-day event at a place like Thunderhill early on, that can be fantastic. You can get more immersed faster with two-day events.
I recommend the book "Secrets of Solo Racing," as a good prep/reference, and any materials you can download from the GGR and other PCA web sites. And I always recommend the video "Going Faster!" as an initial reference tool. Have so with great success since 1987.
I also recommend getting a video set up into the car as early as possible. Plenty of choices here. I was an early adopter of in car video in DE. Back in the day I even mounted a rented full-sized VHS camcorder... that was a long time ago.
Welcome and good luck.
And happy holidays.
- Mike
I have lived in this area for nearly 25 years, and have been pretty active with AX, DE and racing throughout, exclusively in Porsches. Feel free to send me a PM and we can exchange contact info.
I am going to presume that you are serious about learning and developing skills, whether you ever intend to go wheel-to-wheel racing. And of course are serious about having fun.
I recommend as a step 1 that you join the PCA if you are not already a member. There are several excellent PCA regions in the SF Bay area. I have done events with all of them. Although my zipcode naturally places me in Diablo Region, I elect to be a member of Golden Gate Region (GGR).
I suggest making PCA events your starting "home base." GGR has an annual slate of excellent AX and track events. Diablo, Loma Prietta, Redwood, Monterey, Sac Valley-- all will likely have events to get you started. GGR probably has the greatest number. A heavy mix of early experience with PCA groups is extremely beneficial. I cannot emphasize this enough.
My next two target groups for would be Trackmasters Racing and Hooked on Driving. I know the folks that run these businesses and have watched them evolve from their beginnings. These groups, and others like them almost always have instructors available, and with proactive networking you can get lined up with some of their best folks, including those with Porsche experience.
The Northern California Racing Club is also excellent and I have know those folks for a long time too.
These three groups offer events which are excellent supplements to PCA outings, which in my experience are best leveraged after a few PCA days. There are other groups as well, but these constitute my top recommendations for a number of reasons.
I would consider mixing some AX in you early experience. Invaluable. One or more local PCA groups may still have an AX school where you can get a more immersive experience as you climb the curve.
As for tracks, highly recommend starting at Thunderhill. Accumulation of experience and development of skill works out well with a heavy mix of Thunderhill early on. Depending on your specific goals, Laguna and Sears Point are great places to have fun and to learn. In both cases, I recommend starting with PCA events at those venues.
And if you can mix in a PCA two-day event at a place like Thunderhill early on, that can be fantastic. You can get more immersed faster with two-day events.
I recommend the book "Secrets of Solo Racing," as a good prep/reference, and any materials you can download from the GGR and other PCA web sites. And I always recommend the video "Going Faster!" as an initial reference tool. Have so with great success since 1987.
I also recommend getting a video set up into the car as early as possible. Plenty of choices here. I was an early adopter of in car video in DE. Back in the day I even mounted a rented full-sized VHS camcorder... that was a long time ago.
Welcome and good luck.
And happy holidays.
- Mike
11-27-2015, 04:12 PM
#4
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Hi Fabe,
I agree with Mike.
I would start with a few AutoX with PCA-GGR and maybe a car control clinic with BMWCCA.
You can google both of those clubs and find out how to join. Both are worthwhile expenditures for the exposure.
www.motorsportreg.com is a good one to find local events. Try to stay away from random trackday organizations. I have been to some cheaper ones where SIX cars were totaled by reckless driving. Start with Hooked On Driving, they are a great organization that focuses on safety.
Send me a PM and we can chat on the phone and get you started.
I agree with Mike.
I would start with a few AutoX with PCA-GGR and maybe a car control clinic with BMWCCA.
You can google both of those clubs and find out how to join. Both are worthwhile expenditures for the exposure.
www.motorsportreg.com is a good one to find local events. Try to stay away from random trackday organizations. I have been to some cheaper ones where SIX cars were totaled by reckless driving. Start with Hooked On Driving, they are a great organization that focuses on safety.
Send me a PM and we can chat on the phone and get you started.
11-27-2015, 08:20 PM
#5
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Autocross, autocross, autocross to learn car control.
I highly recommend going to the Porsche Sports Driving School in Birmingham, AL (or another similar driving school) to get the fundamentals down before getting out on the track. You will progress much, much faster, and you'll be doing the right things from the start. (If you go straight to track days, the instructors you will get are a mixed bag.)
Ease into track days after you have some car control skills and track fundamentals from a driving school.
PCA-GGR runs a good DE event. Nice people too.
I highly recommend going to the Porsche Sports Driving School in Birmingham, AL (or another similar driving school) to get the fundamentals down before getting out on the track. You will progress much, much faster, and you'll be doing the right things from the start. (If you go straight to track days, the instructors you will get are a mixed bag.)
Ease into track days after you have some car control skills and track fundamentals from a driving school.
PCA-GGR runs a good DE event. Nice people too.
11-27-2015, 09:05 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
I'm in the Bay Area as well and am a few years into my track experience. Start with GGR. It's a great group with a great mix of all the tracks in the area. I hear great things about Hooked on driving but my experience with Track masters and NCRC is that in the lower skill run groups it's a little hairy. Lot's of people with more car than skill and that can get them & you in trouble. GGR is starting the season in March at Thunderhill and then in May down in Buttonwillow. Both are fun tracks that provide a nice safe place for your beginning adventure. Sonoma is a little intimidating because of all the close walls. It seems like a car smacks a wall every time I'm there.
11-27-2015, 11:47 PM
#7
Race Director
I started with the PCA-GGR about 7 years ago. Great instructors, very fun group of people to hang out with. Things are well organized, and easy for beginners to understand.
I never did the Autocross, just straight to the track. But Autocross is safer to learn the limits of your car without exiting the track at speed.
I never did the Autocross, just straight to the track. But Autocross is safer to learn the limits of your car without exiting the track at speed.
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11-28-2015, 02:06 AM
#8
GT3 player par excellence
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mike's response was very comprehensive.
GGR is the best and do the 2 day events. relaxed, good instructor, rapport and yahoo's get kicked out quickly.
BMWCCA is also very good.
HOD i would do after you have a few events with PCA GGR
trackmaster is a good supplement to PCA GGR. but they lack the structure of PCA GGR so you wont learn as fast. but it's good to run with once u have enough track experience.
NCRC WAS good. but now i wont recommend them unless you are in the top run group. and even then, i hesitate
GGR is the best and do the 2 day events. relaxed, good instructor, rapport and yahoo's get kicked out quickly.
BMWCCA is also very good.
HOD i would do after you have a few events with PCA GGR
trackmaster is a good supplement to PCA GGR. but they lack the structure of PCA GGR so you wont learn as fast. but it's good to run with once u have enough track experience.
NCRC WAS good. but now i wont recommend them unless you are in the top run group. and even then, i hesitate
11-28-2015, 02:23 AM
#9
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Another one to consider is CFRA, I go out with this group.
They are none profit members run club and very relaxed, no problems. You need to be invited by member.
I have done couple trackmaster days and they also run good days.
Have not done any other mentioned.
They are none profit members run club and very relaxed, no problems. You need to be invited by member.
I have done couple trackmaster days and they also run good days.
Have not done any other mentioned.
11-28-2015, 09:33 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
OK, since this thread is a little turning into a review of the track clubs we have here, here are my two cents:
1) PCA-GGR is by far the best organization. Everyone (coaches, organization, you name it) is extremely competent and they run super safe and very fun trackdays. Most trackdays are at Thunderhill + one day (in May) in Buttonwillow. There is just one problem: Due to the high volume of competent regular drivers it is very hard to move up the ranks (the rungroups), so you will find yourself in the lower rungroups for quite some time and that eventually gets old (based on how many GT3 show up it's always a crapshoot for me if I make it into the highest group on any given track day). So, after 10 ~ 20 track days with PCA you probably want to look for alternatives, here are the two that I have experience with:
a) Trackmasters: Good club, well run. Maybe a few too many Corvettes (and gold chains) for my taste. The biggest problem is that Doug, the organizer has a full time job and does the track days on the side. And he gets very busy the last few days before the actual event and getting a response to e-mails to him is sometimes very hard. As long as you don't need to make any last minute changes or cancellations you're OK. Trackmasters has the most days at Infineon (Sears Point, Sonoma Raceway, what the heck) from these groups. No open passing.
b) NCRC (Northern California Racing Club): Also a good club (and has the lowest fees), BUT: Much younger crowd (many rice rockets). A lot of testosterone in the lower groups, you can almost count on at least one crash / day). As soon as you made it into "Open" or "Point By" you have better drivers and the best passing rules: "Open" = pass anywhere w/o a point, "Point by" = pass anywhere with a point.
Dave and Luc (the organizers) are running this as "their business" and are much better in reacting to e-mails. NCRC has a relatively high number of days at Laguna-Seca.
c) Golden Gate Lotus Club
They accept all marquees and run a very unorthodox format: They have 3 groups: beginner / intermediate / advanced.
You can run in your group and one adjacent group. They do a hot cut over between groups, that means that there are *always* cars on the hot track, and that your session is not 20 min but 40 min with a 20 min intermission in-between. If you take full advantage of this you will get an amazing number of laps into one day, but you will really wear & tear your car.
I do NOT recommend this for beginners.
The organizers are super-relaxed and pretty much the opposite of PCA. I think the reason why this works is that pretty much everyone there is an adult and experienced driver
You should also look at the cancellation policies for *any* organization you want to run with, because sometimes things are making you change your schedule and you want to work with an organization which understands that and is flexible.
1) PCA-GGR is by far the best organization. Everyone (coaches, organization, you name it) is extremely competent and they run super safe and very fun trackdays. Most trackdays are at Thunderhill + one day (in May) in Buttonwillow. There is just one problem: Due to the high volume of competent regular drivers it is very hard to move up the ranks (the rungroups), so you will find yourself in the lower rungroups for quite some time and that eventually gets old (based on how many GT3 show up it's always a crapshoot for me if I make it into the highest group on any given track day). So, after 10 ~ 20 track days with PCA you probably want to look for alternatives, here are the two that I have experience with:
a) Trackmasters: Good club, well run. Maybe a few too many Corvettes (and gold chains) for my taste. The biggest problem is that Doug, the organizer has a full time job and does the track days on the side. And he gets very busy the last few days before the actual event and getting a response to e-mails to him is sometimes very hard. As long as you don't need to make any last minute changes or cancellations you're OK. Trackmasters has the most days at Infineon (Sears Point, Sonoma Raceway, what the heck) from these groups. No open passing.
b) NCRC (Northern California Racing Club): Also a good club (and has the lowest fees), BUT: Much younger crowd (many rice rockets). A lot of testosterone in the lower groups, you can almost count on at least one crash / day). As soon as you made it into "Open" or "Point By" you have better drivers and the best passing rules: "Open" = pass anywhere w/o a point, "Point by" = pass anywhere with a point.
Dave and Luc (the organizers) are running this as "their business" and are much better in reacting to e-mails. NCRC has a relatively high number of days at Laguna-Seca.
c) Golden Gate Lotus Club
They accept all marquees and run a very unorthodox format: They have 3 groups: beginner / intermediate / advanced.
You can run in your group and one adjacent group. They do a hot cut over between groups, that means that there are *always* cars on the hot track, and that your session is not 20 min but 40 min with a 20 min intermission in-between. If you take full advantage of this you will get an amazing number of laps into one day, but you will really wear & tear your car.
I do NOT recommend this for beginners.
The organizers are super-relaxed and pretty much the opposite of PCA. I think the reason why this works is that pretty much everyone there is an adult and experienced driver
You should also look at the cancellation policies for *any* organization you want to run with, because sometimes things are making you change your schedule and you want to work with an organization which understands that and is flexible.
11-28-2015, 10:46 PM
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There is just one problem: Due to the high volume of competent regular drivers it is very hard to move up the ranks (the rungroups), so you will find yourself in the lower rungroups for quite some time and that eventually gets old (based on how many GT3 show up it's always a crapshoot for me if I make it into the highest group on any given track day).
Is passing open in fast group?
11-29-2015, 01:07 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Yes, I was stuck in the Yellow (Beginner) group way past necessary. I was running faster lap times then friends in Green. It's not just lap times but experience being considered and the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I just kept asking and pointing out that I was lining up first and catching the slower cars within a few laps. After two temporary bumps to the Green group, I guess I proved myself. In the end, I didn't mind and having a few clean laps is nice but I wasn't being challenged anymore. You can also ask for ride alongs with instructors and then ask them to go to bat for you.
Regarding Trackmasters, I've run with them a few times but the last time I ran with them, the release waiver had a clause that I would be held responsible for another driver's car should an incident happen. Personally, I buy track insurance for events to cover my car and am unsure how I feel about being on the hook for someone else's car. Some guys are running $200k cars out there and there's no way I could cover that. I look at it as my responsibility to cover my own but. I'm very cautious and curious but mistakes happen and determining who's at fault can be tricky. I've not noticed any statements from any of the other clubs like this. It may deter me from future Track Masters events.
Regarding Trackmasters, I've run with them a few times but the last time I ran with them, the release waiver had a clause that I would be held responsible for another driver's car should an incident happen. Personally, I buy track insurance for events to cover my car and am unsure how I feel about being on the hook for someone else's car. Some guys are running $200k cars out there and there's no way I could cover that. I look at it as my responsibility to cover my own but. I'm very cautious and curious but mistakes happen and determining who's at fault can be tricky. I've not noticed any statements from any of the other clubs like this. It may deter me from future Track Masters events.
11-29-2015, 01:38 AM
#13
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I can understand session or two if you are new to the club to show you fit but no way I would do it on regular bases like Hatzenbach makes it sound it is. Personally I want open passing and don't want to be fastest car in my group. Unless there is no faster group
And paying for somebodies else car is bs in my opinion, I guess I been racing for to long. **** happens and if you can't take risk don't go to the track. I already sign waiver to accept risk so why would I ask you to pay for my car if you hit me?
And paying for somebodies else car is bs in my opinion, I guess I been racing for to long. **** happens and if you can't take risk don't go to the track. I already sign waiver to accept risk so why would I ask you to pay for my car if you hit me?
