Lost Mojo + move away from P-car ?
07-10-2015, 05:01 PM
#16
The problem is that some DE organizers don't like it when a car like mine is running at race pace. They want their participants running around at 7 or 8 tenths. I am not interested in running cool down lap pace. Also, some DE events are just too crowded so I am passing cars constantly at a pace some of the DE drivers just aren't used to.
DE events with a race group are what I would seek out. Even with a bunch of Spec Miatas or similar, it is better than an Advanced DE group. But I still prefer real test days over DE events.
07-10-2015, 05:02 PM
#17
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I hear ya! I'd have fun thrashing a Yugo around. Well, maybe not a Yugo, but you get the point.
07-10-2015, 05:11 PM
#18
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I found I enjoy DE events most if I know the organizers and they know me and my abilities (or lack of abilities). We usually have a few club racers at our DE's in the advanced groups, so most everyone stays out of our way and lets us have fun.
Unfortunately, our race car has spun a bearing for now the 5th time in less than 3 years, so it is likely that we will be doing NO track driving for the foreseeable future - DE or Race. The constant frustrations working with a builder that has no idea what's going on has taken its toll both financially and emotionally. We may be done for good...
So yes...ANY track driving is better than NO track driving...
Unfortunately, our race car has spun a bearing for now the 5th time in less than 3 years, so it is likely that we will be doing NO track driving for the foreseeable future - DE or Race. The constant frustrations working with a builder that has no idea what's going on has taken its toll both financially and emotionally. We may be done for good...
So yes...ANY track driving is better than NO track driving...
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07-10-2015, 09:05 PM
#19
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Spec Miata has some of the most competitive/fun racing and it has some of the best racers/drivers out there. You can imagine the fun when the top ten quali lap times are all within a 0.3 sec on a 1-2min track at a regional race -- nationals are even tighter. I've seen Cup-car drivers dropping $4k per hour of race time who are all over the place and completely missing the point about racing. To each his own, I guess.
07-10-2015, 09:45 PM
#20
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Lost Mojo + move away from P-car ?
Dr911,
What's missing? Is it the raw speed a 911 brings that a Miata doesn't? That it's a Porsche and not a Miata? That the car might not try to kill you? That you likely won't win your DE in a Miata?
Reading your post it isn't crystal clear to me what exactly you are missing. And I think only you can identify what that thing is, and then go from there.
What's missing? Is it the raw speed a 911 brings that a Miata doesn't? That it's a Porsche and not a Miata? That the car might not try to kill you? That you likely won't win your DE in a Miata?
Reading your post it isn't crystal clear to me what exactly you are missing. And I think only you can identify what that thing is, and then go from there.
07-11-2015, 01:22 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Classic air cooled 911s look like a hoot on the track. But so are Cup cars, Radicals, McLarens, Sprint Cup stock cars, Indycars, and F1 cars. Practical economics limit most of us to things more pedestrian that those. This is an expensive hobby, and the range of that expense varies considerably. Practically speaking, to be sustainable, you have to budget in a range that you can afford. Stuff happens on a racetrack. If you can't afford to wad up your track car, you can't afford to drive it on the track. If you like your street car a lot, and it is difficult to replace, you shouldn't be driving it on the track either.
I started this hobby in my 2003 Jaguar XJR. After what happened to me in my M3 back in 2012 on the track, that Jag will *never* see the track again. It is too valuable to me and too difficult to replace. Now that I have the track M3, I'm loath to drive the street M3 on the track any more. You have to pick what you are comfortable with, even if some of that still "sucks".
That said, learn how to drive the **** out of that Miata. Get fast in that and you will be fast in anything. Take the money you would have spent on the P-car and buy more track time and perhaps some professional coaching. Put the money into you and have a car that you don't really have to care about during a track weekend. Spec Miatas have cheap consumables, cheap parts, are easy to fix, and have a good safety record. Instead of heartbreak, each dent, scratch, and ding can be a reminder of a great track story. The SM guys are some of the fastest and most talented drivers in my region. I don't think it's really fair to compare a Miata with a 911 - embrace it for what it is.
If in the end, the Miata still isn't enough, there is always an E36 M3
.
You just got the Miata - give it a chance.
-Mike
I started this hobby in my 2003 Jaguar XJR. After what happened to me in my M3 back in 2012 on the track, that Jag will *never* see the track again. It is too valuable to me and too difficult to replace. Now that I have the track M3, I'm loath to drive the street M3 on the track any more. You have to pick what you are comfortable with, even if some of that still "sucks".
That said, learn how to drive the **** out of that Miata. Get fast in that and you will be fast in anything. Take the money you would have spent on the P-car and buy more track time and perhaps some professional coaching. Put the money into you and have a car that you don't really have to care about during a track weekend. Spec Miatas have cheap consumables, cheap parts, are easy to fix, and have a good safety record. Instead of heartbreak, each dent, scratch, and ding can be a reminder of a great track story. The SM guys are some of the fastest and most talented drivers in my region. I don't think it's really fair to compare a Miata with a 911 - embrace it for what it is.
If in the end, the Miata still isn't enough, there is always an E36 M3
. You just got the Miata - give it a chance.
-Mike
Except for the M3 part
Dr911, if you do the FSR event at VIR this fall, I will probably be there instructing. Look me up and I'll be glad to give you some tips, maybe do a little lead/follow if the situation works out. Car #58.
07-11-2015, 01:34 PM
#23
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DE days have a completely different vibe from a race day. DEs are generally relaxed where you go out on track with your friends and then smack talk afterwards.
Race days are fun but are a little more "serious".
Both are enormously fun.
"I wish I hadn't gone to the track so much", said no one on their death bed.
07-11-2015, 05:37 PM
#24
As always, the combined insights hit the bullseye! Gracias amigos.
1. Bob: "fear factor" and car vs engine EXACTLY!! Totally resonated for me. The absence of pain is confusing/disorienting. Also hope you and Nadine can get on track soon.
2. TXE36/Mike: you're right I should prob give the miata and me a chance to evolve as a team
3. VR and LuigiV and Coochas et al.: delightful to know that even such experienced drivers like you guys haven't lost the bouncy-footed giggly joyful giddiness of a track day...ANY track day.
4. CCA many many thanks for the offer. I'll be there and will take you up on that (silver/black #59, orange helmet) Because after I bought the spec miata my friend/coach told me he hasn't been able to instruct in a roll cage for years due to mobility problems. Doh! #epicfail
5. DTMiller: hehehe. Yes kinda boring to not be in a kamikaze car I guess...
6. hf1: agreed. I'm developing great respect for the class
In general and where I live NASA SM is one of the most
Competitive classes. I truly hope to reduce my skills deficit by driving my Miata.
7. Winders: I hear ya.
8. mglobe and 964racer: that's very helpful to hear...carrot to keep me going.
And the best news? I finally fessed up to the spouse about
My trailer purchase. He just shook his head and then smiled, and showed me some photos he had taken of a Tesla roadster at the farmers mkt today. #whataguy #idealhusband
Thx
A
1. Bob: "fear factor" and car vs engine EXACTLY!! Totally resonated for me. The absence of pain is confusing/disorienting. Also hope you and Nadine can get on track soon.
2. TXE36/Mike: you're right I should prob give the miata and me a chance to evolve as a team
3. VR and LuigiV and Coochas et al.: delightful to know that even such experienced drivers like you guys haven't lost the bouncy-footed giggly joyful giddiness of a track day...ANY track day.
4. CCA many many thanks for the offer. I'll be there and will take you up on that (silver/black #59, orange helmet) Because after I bought the spec miata my friend/coach told me he hasn't been able to instruct in a roll cage for years due to mobility problems. Doh! #epicfail
5. DTMiller: hehehe. Yes kinda boring to not be in a kamikaze car I guess...
6. hf1: agreed. I'm developing great respect for the class
In general and where I live NASA SM is one of the most
Competitive classes. I truly hope to reduce my skills deficit by driving my Miata.
7. Winders: I hear ya.
8. mglobe and 964racer: that's very helpful to hear...carrot to keep me going.
And the best news? I finally fessed up to the spouse about
My trailer purchase. He just shook his head and then smiled, and showed me some photos he had taken of a Tesla roadster at the farmers mkt today. #whataguy #idealhusband
Thx
A
Last edited by Dr911; 07-11-2015 at 06:38 PM.
07-11-2015, 06:21 PM
#25
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Dr911
What you're missing is the thrill of the 'fear factor' of an older 911....a car that has more power than 'car' until you master it. Your SM is more car than power. What do I mean by this? In the SM, the lower HP does not overpower the capabilities of the car. You can just get on it and stay on it, and the car will 'catch' you. With the 911...too much throttle at the wrong time will put you off...a lot more paying attention is needed.
I used to say that about our race car when it had 200 hp...there was more 'car' than engine. No matter what you did, you couldn't overpower the handling of the car (like in your current SM situation) when the engine went to 350 hp, you had to DRIVE the car and really pay attention because now, the engine could way overpower the handling.
Make sense?
What you're missing is the thrill of the 'fear factor' of an older 911....a car that has more power than 'car' until you master it. Your SM is more car than power. What do I mean by this? In the SM, the lower HP does not overpower the capabilities of the car. You can just get on it and stay on it, and the car will 'catch' you. With the 911...too much throttle at the wrong time will put you off...a lot more paying attention is needed.
I used to say that about our race car when it had 200 hp...there was more 'car' than engine. No matter what you did, you couldn't overpower the handling of the car (like in your current SM situation) when the engine went to 350 hp, you had to DRIVE the car and really pay attention because now, the engine could way overpower the handling.
Make sense?
07-11-2015, 06:46 PM
#26
The only time those "mistakes" don't cost you in a "high HP" car versus a "low HP" car is when the "high HP" cars around you are not driven well.
07-11-2015, 06:55 PM
#27
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I agree. Then my perception must be affected by the fact that there are many more low HP (than high HP) cars that are driven well. There will be many more people able to extract pro-level performance (or very close) out of a low HP car than a out of a high HP car. At a pro level, all mistakes cost the same regardless of HP or grip.
07-11-2015, 07:56 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Mistakes aren't covered by the HP, they are still there. At a DE and in many racing classes they just aren't perceived, because the driver is not surrounded or racing with cars of similar HP, handling and aero driven by good drivers.
The first time I realized how costly a mistake could be to momentum, was my first time GoKarting. The Karts weren't great, but equal enough and we had fun. One of guys was a former Kart champ, Indy and current (then) Grand-Am driver and the other was in his 2-3rd yr of StarMazda. I was hanging with them until I came into a corner too hot, understeered and lost 5 Kart lengths that I couldn't regain. Lesson learned.
The first time I realized how costly a mistake could be to momentum, was my first time GoKarting. The Karts weren't great, but equal enough and we had fun. One of guys was a former Kart champ, Indy and current (then) Grand-Am driver and the other was in his 2-3rd yr of StarMazda. I was hanging with them until I came into a corner too hot, understeered and lost 5 Kart lengths that I couldn't regain. Lesson learned.
Last edited by CCA; 07-13-2015 at 03:58 PM.
07-12-2015, 12:27 PM
#29
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Dr 911: you may want to expand your horizons and do track days with other organizations like David Murry, Chin, Kojote, etc, who run open track days. Or even find the occasional PCA open lapping days. Traditional approach PCA DEs with 20-30 min sessions are fine for the beginner, but usually not enough for the track addict. Also go racing with SCCA or Chump or NASA. Chump by far gives you the most seat time for the least amount of $. You can even rent a seat for cheap. Good luck!
07-12-2015, 12:45 PM
#30
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My biggest problem with track days is that I get a poor night's sleep the night before because I am so excited to be going to the track! I feel like a kid on Christmas morning and keep waking up to check the time. The feeling just never goes away for me.