I'm in Dr911's camp.
I'm a rolling chicane unless its open passing, so I enter only open passing groups.

The other thing is the long hood values have really increases so much, I'm not sure I can just walk away and not cry...

I only wish I had more garage space.

on the vibe of DE's vs racing.
-DE is just for fun. Racing is business. I'd bring the kitchen sink to a race, in order to fix anything that broke, with a DE, I'd just park it and enjoy the day.

 

They are boring compared to racing. However I throw in a few a year to work on the car and myself.

to OP. I went from a P-Car to a BMW and enjoy the hell out of my E46 M3. and my old E36 M3. A Lot less $$ to race and I don't think the PCars I'm racing against are having any more fun than I am....

 

I know tallying racing costs is generally frowned upon but could you give any comparison $$ numbers, like $/hr of race time? What race series are you running?

 

It's club racing. It's definitely not business and if you're not doing it for fun then why? Most of us aren't making a living due to the racetrack. No reason you can't treat a club race like a DE.

 

Count me in as someone who has stopped tracking their Porsche 911 and yes I miss it. It sure was fun driving my Porsche at my limit, close the the car's limit at the track. Problem is, at the end of the 2011 season my local race track permanently closed down and no replacement has yet to resurfaced. However I did get into Kart racing and OMG as much as I miss tracking my 911, my 2 stroke Rotax DD2 Kart is the bomb. It pulls close to 3 Gs in the high speed sweepers. That thing is like a mini-formula car. So no crocodile tears here. LOL

Plus with the recent rise of the prices on 993s, perhaps I shouldn't be tracking my Porsche, though it was engineered from years of experience Porsche learned at the race tracks, and it definitely was not engineered to be sitting in some garage collecting dust. So perhaps some crocodile tears are in order. But one lap in the DD2 and I quickly forget. haha

 

I estimate $400/Hr. (All consumables, maint, Cost of event, etc)

But in general here are a few notes as to why I've found BMW's are cheaper to run.
- Base Car is cheaper
- When Crashed much cheaper to get parts
- Heavy consumables are a lot less $$. (Brakes, etc)
- Replacement parts are typically much cheaper: (radiators, Motors, Suspension)
- Square Set-Up (Tires & Wheels)
- Rates from BMW shops are lower than P-Car Shops (Race Shops)
- Go fast parts seem to be more prevalent and better $ in the BMW Race world.

Series
BMWCCA Club Racing
NASA GTS
HSR (GT-Series)
(Also fits well in SCCA but I haven't run w/ them, yet)

BMW has some good competition and camaraderie probably similar to PCA CR. NASA & HSR have both marquees and many of NASA's GTS 2-4 front runners are BMW's


Also the person who said CR isn't work, I have to respectfully disagree. Although I have a blast and enjoy racing, which is the main reason why I do it.. It is a lot more work than a DE. Particularly for those that are at the sharp end of the stick...

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Thx. Wow, that's low! Maybe even lower than Spec Miata, if that was even possible. I'm guessing this assumes doing all/most of wrenching by yourself and doesn't include track support on race day?

 

I'm not racing, but one of the things that lead me to buying a second BMW E36 M3 for the track vs a P-car was simply the cost of a motor. Entire S52s in good condition can be had for $2K.

Other costs are pretty reasonable too, ~$850 for a set of Hankook Z214s, $720 for a set of Nitto NT-01s. Oil changes are $7 filters and 8 quarts of fairly pedestrian oil. Brakes last a long time too.

Handles like a heavy Miata with a bit more kick.

-Mike

 

Definitely not lower than a spec Miata...

I estimated this based on run time and $2k-3K/ weekend.

I usually have some track help. But not an arrive and drive situation. I bring the car prepped (by a shop) and maintain it on my own unless it's big then I call for the pros and drink beer.

 

That's an awesome bang/$ if it includes car prep by a shop instead of doing your own work. I need to do more research...

EDIT: How do you get 6hrs of run time per race weekend (6 x $400 = $2400)? Seems a lot. Still $2-3k/wknd (all in) sounds very good.

 

Dr911, PM sent

 

Whoever (Bob Akin? Carroll Smith?) said, "You can't make a racehorse out of a pig, but you can make a mighty fast pig" wasn't talking about Porsches specifically so much as any street car you try and make into a racer. Purpose built racecars are a categorically different species.
Teenagers in 113 HP Forumula Fords are lapping faster than all but the most outrageous Porsche racecars, at a tiny fraction of the running costs. (eg: from MidOH '11 timesheet, FF 1:28.22 vs. fastest rennpoints car GTA2 1:27.7)

Racecars are cheaper to buy, easier to fix, built to a single purpose, and just generally the best tool for the job if the job is minimizing lap times per unit of $/time/effort.

HOwever: every racecar series is basically languishing or spinning of schismatic offshoots in frustration. in contrast, PCA events are well run, well attended, and despite class creep, unified by a common bond of P-car enthusiasm.

IMO: PCA racing is a fundamentally first about the car club and Marque worship, and secondly about racing. And that's not a bad thing. An SCCA paddock is full of tiny tribes who have little in common with one another. You are really there racing against the handful of folks who showed up that weekend in your class, and there is zero in common between the guy in the F500 and the guy in the GT1 Camaro.

As I spend $5K or so on bodywork for damage sustained at VIR I reflect that if I'd been driving a Spec Racer Ford or S2K, I'd have been able to bolt on repairs in the paddock with $500 worth of parts I'd carry as spares. But PCA events are a lot more fun...

 

BMW CCA typically has
3 Sprints 30 Min = 90 min
1 Enduro 60 or 90 min = 90 min
3 Qually 20 min each = 60 min
2-3 30 min Practices = 90 min

So maybe $500-$600/hr... But hey I live by the golden rule of not adding up..

 

I almost ended up in an E36 M3 for all these reasons ^^^

<Decided to go SM route on the encouragement of a coach/friend who is now, sadly, retiring from track. Still, hopefully, it will help improve my momentum skills deficits.>

My kid has an E36 nonM and it's transmission is absolutely sublime! I try to get my hands on it any chance I get.