biko

As is, I think it should do 1:38s. Possibly a little better with softer tires, a bit of suspension tuning and body tuning.

ProCoach

That's not quite true, Matt. The motorcycle powered cars have shorter engine lives and greater costs than the automotive based sports racers. When you turn those things the revs you have to (and want to) make them really go, things wear and break more often.

The Radical is a tube frame, heavy duty, purpose built car, ideally suited for track days. Many of the older cars have been run hard and put up wet. The operation of these cars throughout the early part of their lives was usually without professional preparation (that was the way the owners were told they could operate them), so wear items aren't tracked and some owners drive them until there is an issue. There have been over a dozen US importers of the cars, and pockets of excellence as well as vast areas of no support over the years. I think things are better now and I do recommend the cars, if supported by a local dealer. Ours is Wisko Engineering on site at VIR. Danyel is awesome to talk to, if you're interested.

Automotive-engined cars, like the Sports 2000 (actually a much lighter, more advanced monocoque chassis made out of sheet aluminum, as well as having the great benefit of running in MANY, MANY track day and racing venues with TONS of like cars to compare to and benchmark your own performance) and the Caterham SP.300/R, as well as open-wheel (formula) cars like the Formula Meowza (thanks to Coochas Dave for his edification of the group on these great cars), Formula F and Formula Continental, are more reasonable, take less engine maintenance and have engine life measured in YEARS, not hours. That's why I like them.

I want to race historic racing, so for me, I chose S2000 because I can do that, track days, DE's, SCCA P2 (not competitively) and NASA competitively and spend years between engine builds.

:52 at LRP, 1:58 at WGI, 1:21 at Thunderbolt, 1:10 at Roebling, 1:57 at VIR, 1:30 at Road Atlanta and Mid-O Club, 2:15 at Road America, 2:13 at Sebring, 2:19 at COTA, 1:20 at PBIR, 1:37 Sears, 1:30 at MRLS are all fast enough for me! And my car is $35K all in...

I do think it's better for people who make the decision to buy purpose built cars to have a local resource, even if they plan on running the car themselves. These things all have engines, transmissions and suspension that are solid-mounted to the chassis, constantly (due to vibration) trying to shake itself apart. Always good to have fresh or knowledgeable, experienced eyes on these things between outings.

Agreed, a blast to drive.

I would not consider the Radical a high downforce car at all, principally because of the existence of seriously high downforce cars like the West and the Stohr. The latter have tunnels between the axle lines, unlike the Radical and S2000, which have flat bottoms between the two axle lines.

The addition of a splitter, dive planes and a diffuser does help (as does a wing, although less so), but the underbody stuff is what makes the magic, in my experience. It's still more fun than a converted street or GT car...

Agreed. Brake pads and rotor wear are often measured in seasons!

In Sports 2000, the soft Avons, Hoosiers and Goodyears don't last well at all, if you're going REALLY fast. If you are not at the pointy end of a competitive field in racing, you can do two, three or four weekends a set. If you are, it's two sets a weekend. My biggest line item expense. My last engine refresh was $4500 and lasts two years. And I win.

Looks like the Gitanes Lola T-298 from about 35 years ago behind your car! Stablemates, considering the Caterham SP.300/R started life as a Lola design.

I think the Caterham, with it's composite monocoque structure, supercharged Duratec and well thought out body and aero, is terrific! I've recommended them to several people and they are a joy. MUCH more advanced car than the Radical. Not a great deal faster than the SR8, though, IMO.

While the newer composite chassis Pro Mazda is marginally faster than a well driven and set up, soft-tired SP.300/R, these cars can be much quicker than the older tube-frame Formula Mazda (like Coochas Dave's car). They DO need the understeer dialed out, because from Dyson, it is seriously limiting.

I have found Dyson to be the only source for the Caterham stuff (they are the importer and US sales agent, at least the last time I checked), but the car is in production and parts are easy.

Unlike the Radical, which does require periodic engine maintenance, rebuilding and replacement (?!?!?!), the Duratec in the Caterham lasts for years before needing attention.

Once you drive a sports racer, you'll find it tough to go back...

Here I am leading a 250-bhp, $250K Lola T212 at Indy.

ProCoach

I think that is a very valid point.

Wolf is (was?) made by an Italian company, like many of these short-run prototypes built for the European VdeV sports racing series.

The Euro spec all these cars (that are gradually making their way over here) were built to is called "CN" by the FIA, originally written by the French for Ligier to build the JS49, an excellent car (Honda K-series powered) that looks good and runs well.

Lucchini and a number of other Italian builders have put cars together too, but a lot of these cars are meant for hillclimbing, not circuit racing.

The Caterham is final-assembled (from imported from the UK cars and parts), supported and sold by Dyson Racing, the works Bentley PWC team and of IMSA fame. There are US investors in the company, so it's MUCH better capitalized than Wolf or many others, IMO.

biko

Yes when I stated Formula Mazda I was thinking Pro Mazda. I believe they run Sonoma Raceway at 1:30 or better. That is fast.

I don't believe Dyson is importing the SP.300/R any longer. The distribution of Caterhams generally is with Superformance dealers. My race shop put together a spares package to have on hand and a Superformance dealer I contacted is getting all the parts from the factory. So no issue with parts.

The car has tons of potential and having a good race shop can help realize it. There is a lot of low hanging fruit tuning the body work as an example.

ProCoach

That's too bad. Chris Dyson and Michael Marsal worked hard to get these cars established. I'll have to ask Olthoff Racing in Mooresville, NC about the new arrangement. They're terrific as a Superformance dealer here in the East. Plus they've been racing for decades, so they have that drill down.

I think the chassis balance needs fixing first. Until you spring it so that the car doesn't push near as much, the bodywork is not what is holding that car back.

From a few years ago at PBIR...

winders

I hope it goes better than that. My 2380 lbs (with driver) 310 HP 911 GT race car has done a 1:40 lap around Sears Point.

biko

My suspension is setup fairly well by the prior owner (I think that is all he did with the car). Neutral on medium to high speed turns. It does push a little on the low speed corners which I am going to address perhaps with a little camber. after some more hours in the car. Apparently a popular upgrade is to Penske shocks for greater tunability. Something I will look at, again after some more seat time.

As far as body work is concerned, one of the things we tried on the test day was taping a small gurney flap on the side vents by the engine to help draw out heat. We dropped the coolant temperature by 3 degrees with this. There are a bunch of other tunings like this, many are aero efficiency related, and some reliability related.

Circuit Motorsports

What are you looking for in particular?

Track Day fun or something that will eventually lead into or be competitive in some club racing?

I crawled over the Wolf when it was at VIR a couple years ago. Dean Turnbaugh is the guy in Austin who is importing them IIRC. Nice guy. I think the selling point on the Wolf was the Honda motor. The K20 is pretty bomb proof when you don't push it too hard, which they weren't. It wasn't as fast as a well built Stohr WF-1 around the track but it was pretty close.

I'd look pretty hard at an older generation Stohr if I wanted closed wheel and purpose build right now. Enough of them out there that there is a strong knowledge base, still competitive in regional SCCA and solid enough to compete in the Majors.

biko

Perhaps 1:35 with the right tires and driver but not much faster than that. It doesn't have a lot of torque and power at the high end compared to your Porsche.

Circuit Motorsports

That sounds about right actually for an undeveloped car like that. The Formula Ford record is just under 1:40, a fully developed DSR Stohr runs a 1:27 and that is a car with massive amounts of aero downforce and much less weight when compared to the caterham. Spec Miata runs a 1:54 for comparison. Peter in his S2 would probably run a 1:35-6 is my guess.

ProCoach

It will. Based on time comparisons at VIR between the Caterham, Stohr and a Grand Am Spec GT3 Cup, it should do 1:32's.

The Stohr WF-1 is quicker. The Stohr goes thirteen SECONDS faster than your Porsche at Sears...

This is why I like Stohrs. This one is an 01D upgraded to WF-1 spec. For sale needing work now for less than $27K...

Oh, and it's a 1-liter car...

Gofishracing

I dream of a Dallara GP2 like Gary Hauser use to run. He is in a WOLF GB08 F1 now. Amazing cars. Check him out on you tube.

winders

13 seconds? On the full 2.520 miles course? The best lap I can find for a Stohr WF1 on the full course is a high 1:30. A 1:27 is moving it around the full course. An Audi R8 did a mid 1:20 on the full course with McNish driving.

ProCoach

Ok, TEN seconds, then...

Purpose-built cars are a marvelous thing.

winders

Peter,

Roll your eyes and stick out your tongue all you want....

My point wasn't comparing the Stohr WF1 to my car's lap time. I have a relatively slow and slightly castrated by spec rules GT car. The point was that a 1:27 for the full course is wicked fast....and I couldn't find a Stohr WF1 time that fast.