Gary R.

Otto - look into Kirkey as they "had" a seat with removable Halo. Drive to the track, few bolts later your in. I purchased a Simpson Hybrid Sport as I will be in students cars and my own with only a 3-point. While Simpson won't go as far as to say it's effective with a 3-point (at least TMK) I can see in wearing it that it sure can't hurt and will offer some help. The nice thing about the new hybrids is you don't have to use a seat insert and they offer a couple D-rings to attache to the lap belt (of a harness) to keep the Hybrid's straps from riding up. Also, since I had a new helmet with Hans posts, they supply it ready to go if asked.

Otto Mechanic

Thanks Gary (R.) I'll look at Kirkey's line again, I hadn't seen a removable HALO last time I looked but I can't say I looked as hard as I could have. The only removable I've found so far was the Sparco, which is fine and suits my purpose. If it weren't ugly as sin I wouldn't be searching for alternatives

It's also why I'm looking at the Hybrid, it seems to be very forgiving of seat and harness choices and according to rumor actually provides some protection in stock cars. It would be nice if numbers were available but anecdotes work for me to some extent also.

Thanks for sharing your opinions.

DER951

Kirkey has a tubular head restraint that can be added to their seats, but is not easily removed and reinstalled. Put it on and leave it. Stable Energies is the only vendor I've found selling it. I added it to mine, and it allows good visibility for street driving. You can get in and out wearing helmet and HANS with a stock steering wheel, at least in a 996. The Kirkey seat gets pretty hard after an hour of street driving. On the track, I'm too focused on driving to notice any lack of comfort.

Otto Mechanic

Thanks Rod, I'll check them out.

Professor HANS

Otto asked: "testing protocols were originally determined by the inventors of the HANS device, who were also largely responsible for writing the SFI standard used in device certification. Is it incorrect?"

No sir that is absolutely untrue, it is an internet legend that has been spread by others, some of whom could not pass the SFI standards and seeked to blame third parties instead of their concept or performance. The HANS device WAS the first head restraint to meet SFI 38.1 and at the time we were very proud of that accomplishment as it's a difficult standard (as it should be).

The SFI is made up independant engineers and safety equipment manufacturers. They are good people honestly interested in your safety. Yes, the manufacturers want to sell their gear, but they would have nothing to sell if it didn't work and keep people safe. When discussing testing protocols, sanctioning bodies are consulted for real world information. Some safety devices work better than others and generate better numbers in testing. Competition is good for the consumer, but make sure you understand the difference between a product that just meets the minimum standard, and products that go beyond that and offer additional protection. Also, consider the reputation of the manufacturer and whether you think they will be available in the future to support and recertify their products. If they disappear and cannot recertify, an inexpensive purchase can become an expensive mistake.

Thank you.

Otto Mechanic

Hi Rod -

I did find the HALO add-on for Kirkey's seats at Stable Energy, unfortunately I'd need to find a pair of their older seats to use that solution, but it looks as if even their newer seats have bolted rather than welded in HALO mods so it may not make much difference. As you mention, I don't think either are really designed to be removable, which leaves the Ergo. I was just kidding about aesthetic considerations with the Ergo, what I'd really like is a broader set of choices. The way it stands now for a person looking for a street/track seat, the Ergo is the only game in town.

Thanks again for the tip.

Otto Mechanic

Thanks for defending that allegation, in addition to the folks you mention who've possibly been unsuccessful obtaining SFI certification, I've heard it advanced as an explanation for why lateral shear criteria haven't been adopted into the standard, which is far more important from my perspective. As a consumer looking for devices that perform well in that dimension (lateral loads/forces), publicly accessible metrics would be welcome.

Thanks again for busting the myth.

Gary R.

Yes, I wasn't talking about the add on, I had looked at Kirkey seats a couple years ago and it appeared the halo was bolted on and was referring to them. Wasn't positive about it though.

Otto Mechanic

I'm trying to find a Kirkey dealer in N. Cal. just to be sure, but at the moment I'm leaning towards the Hybrid and a Sparco Ergo II, it looks like the setup is about the best I can do for a "streetable" track car. I kind of wish the ISAAC system was SFI approved, but if wishes were fishes as they say, and besides I've never really seen one up close or in use. They do look good on paper though. There's a Sparco dealer in Sonoma, which is only about 100 miles from me and they also carry the Hybrid so it's one stop shopping.

I like the Hybrid mostly because it seems to give some advantage even in stock seats as you mention and I do expect to be riding shotgun from time to time.

Gary R.

Let's put it this way, attaching my helmet to the Hybrid when using 3 point belts is definitely better than attaching it to NOTHING!

Otto Mechanic

Great minds think alike...