Gary R.

You have the right attitude.. I must have been your instructor at one time..

Mahler9th

Condolences to friends and family of the departed, and prayers for those others affected, including the driver.

I have not read every post here, but I think so far there are not a lot of factual details. The picture of the car is quite disturbing.

I see some mention of track safety, and I hope that folks learn from this. I have never been to that track, but I am sure there is room for improvement. There is always room for improvement.

I see some mention of event safety, and here again, if there are learning opportunities, I hope they are leveraged.

I have seen a mention of street driving in a car with rollover protection that can come in contact with a driver. I do this from time to time. When I was doing it a lot, I used an extra layer or two of Confor foam for critical areas. In any case, something to think about.

With a lot more tracks, events, types of events and more cars capable of higher speeds, challenges abound.

To me the biggest challenge relates to culture because we have far more folks interested in "just giving this a try" as opposed to really wanting to learn in greater detail and devoting more effort to pre-event prep. And of course we have this wonderful internet tool to proliferate incorrect and/or diluted information about the what, when, where, how, why, et cetera, of driving safely and quickly on a closed circuit.

Best for us all to work hard to overcome these challenges.

mark kibort

That's funny.

What I usually do, is in the car as we are buckling up, I tell the student, that no matter what they think, try or attempt to do, they will not be able to impress me. Once that is out of the way, off we go and hopefully its as near to 80% as I can bridle the student to run. I haven't had to have anyone drop me off at the hot pits yet.

as far as the instructor who lost his life, RIP. Such a tragic event.

Trees on a race course, that are close enough to hit?

NaroEscape

I was thinking the exact same thing Jackie...
I was there at the CMP event back in 2009....probably one of the saddest and most sobering days of my life...a SERIOUS reality check. Car was fully caged including door bars, Tom had HANS and all safety equipment. It wasn't a limb...it was the whole tree (similar to this incident) broadside into the door.

I've talked to Spencer Pumpelly a few times about tracks and safety - he is a HUGE proponent of track and racer safety. He's said there are a few tracks he'd never drive - CMP and Summit being two - because there is the real (obviously) possibility of hitting a tree. A tree should NEVER come into play. NEVER. Guard rails, tires, walls, etc are meant to provide glancing blows and such, but a tree 1) does not move, and 2) can do exactly the kind of damage as you see in that picture where no safety equipment at all can save you.

mrbill_fl

It could have just as easily been a driver side impact....
that's something to remember for all people thinking about track events.

Sometimes I think we minimize the risks at DE events.


at every driver introduction, I say its my job to allow you to drive your car home in one piece at the end of the weekend, and its likely someone won't be that lucky.

That usually sets the right tone, and why I keep someone under control until I'm confident in their ability.


Condolences to the family, and Godspeed

So Sad

mrbill_fl

Speaking of track safety, When I arrive at any track, I look at where I'm pitting and see what kind of physical barrier there is between me and the track.

Just because its a long way from the track doesn't count for anything.
Especially if its a wet surface... too many cars are destroyed parking too close to track, by a big off.

Even pit lane. a chain link fence won't stop spit.

Captain Slow

This is the obituary for the instructor who perished if anyone wants to send condolences to the family. sounds like a really nice guy who sacrificed a lot for our country - of course those guys are always the ones these things seem to happen to.....

http://www.eackles-spencerfuneralhom...33&fh_id=13130

spg993tt

These tracks should be boycotted. I mean, how difficult is it to take down a bunch of trees compared to the loss of life or major harm.
grossly negligent disregard for safety with known hazards , especially osmething so simple to resolve, is unacceptable.
at some point the car clubs, PCA, SCCA shoudl step forward and not renew to go to these tracks. if SCCA and PCA hold off on negotiating dates, these tracks might invest the couple of grand to take down trees.

bobt993

I have been racing/instructing at Summit point for many years and since the passing of Bill Scott his family has done a lot of upgrades to the facility. They easily could have packed it in and sold out to the government with a big pot of gold, but they have stayed committed to the track and his wishes. It's a tragic incident and hopefully not to be repeated. Until there is a full technical explanation of the incident I would refrain from a blanket statement regarding the facility. If you have not raced or experienced the track at Summit Point give this it's due course and allow them a chance to make additional changes in the layout. i believe the track layout at Jefferson was just altered over the winter and this was some of the first use of the surface.

John's 991

Reading the obituary, it is so sad for all the people in his family that are left behind without their husband, father, grandfather, brother, etc. I also have to feel for the driver who has to live with causing the death of Novinger. There is no doubt that it was unintentional, but it would be very hard for me to live with that, if I was ever in that situation.

This incident will certainly make me pay more attention to the safety of the local tracks here in NorCal. I have never felt unsafe, but going sideways into armco or similar has always been a concern. Going in head first or back end first may total the car, but most folks seem to walk away.

Boycotting tracks with obvious dangerous conditions is a good first step. I have never driven Summit, but I am wondering if there was a tire wall lined barrier in front of the tree line if that would help. It would certainly absorb more impact and disperse it over a wider area than a tree.

And I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but when my time comes, I hope it is quick and doing something I love.

944Cup

What tracks still have trees you can run into? Not enough has been done to improve driver safety at SP since I first raced there in the 70's. And the cars have only gotten faster.

Unfortunately tracks like SP have all the leverage as there is a waiting list of clubs to get track days every year. One club balks at a booking for safety reasons and there are two more clubs ready to take their date. These events are money makers for the clubs, so they get booked regardless.

A few years back I was briefly part of an effort to organize drivers to form a coalition to force changes to unsafe conditions at tracks, Organizing drivers is like herding cats, damn near impossible. The effort faded fast.

Drivers are getting hurt or worse, cars are being destroyed, and it is not necessary. Twenty years ago when F1 drivers were getting killed every year, with the force of a handful of drivers, they banded together to force organizers and track owners to make tracks safe. Today, a death in F1 is rare and all because F1 demands tracks be built with safety in mind.

And yes then there's the many incidents at SP caused by deer crossing the track, something SP has become noted for. .

And how about the dirt banks that either catapult a car into the woods or flip the a race car over. Why does that continue?

The design and condition of the terrain surrounding the SP track when a car goes off the hard surface is appalling. I have raced the track for 40 years, raced here with my Dad and later with my son, love the main circuit, consider it my home track, but the circuits should have been made more safe many seasons ago. My opinion as a driver, race organizer, and parent.

911 Rod

My condolences to the family. Very sad to see this happen to a fellow instructor.

I have never felt I was in danger with a student or even me driving.

Having said that, I slow them down to what I think their skill level is at.

Trees on a track? Holy f##k!!

TraqGear

Holy cow. That pic is a rough one to see. I must agree, I'm not sure how much safety equipment would have helped. Still, I would opt for it as opposed to having nothing. There are times when nothing will help the situation and I wonder at times if it is just their time to go. I remember Tom Norby as well from the CMP incident. About as nice of a guy as you will ever meet and loved the track. Removing "reachable" trees may be a good start at any track.

ResIpsa

Sorry if this is a re post from another thread. But from what I have read he loved this sport/hobby/obsession. Let's find some good from tragedy.

I was at Summit Point this weekend. Although I will admit I only heard a rumor of an instructor death on Sunday. It was a whisper around the paddock that I refused to believe.

I have been running in HPDE 3 for almost 3 years now. There seems to be a natural progression at this point. Either go racing…or become an instructor…

Hell, my 370Z doesn’t fit into any class anyway. And I just heard that we are a man down.

I guess I have to sign up for the July 18th instructor clinic.

Caymanman1970

Going to attend a PCA driver education event this year. Was not aware of the amount of risk I guess wow. Too bad for the family.