PPo

What does Riccardo's performance say about Webber?

The season is not over, and IMHO conclusions about Vettel should be kept reasonable until deeper into the season. I think the same thing can be said about comparing Kimi and Fred.

Eifeler

+1 on all accounts.

Hopefully Renault can come up with some "reliability" enhancements soon to help bring the field closer together.

McLaren??? Too proud to lower their sponsorship rate, hemoraging cash and going backwards. Hope they get their shiate together soon as well.

multi21

I've brought that several times and it has made some people very upset.

My993C2

It means that RBR absolutely made the right choice in selecting Daniel Ricciardo to join their team. It's not the first time something like this has happened. In 2009 Vettel was not supposed to compete against his more experienced teammate Mark Webber, and yet he did. And in 2007 Lewis Hamilton was not supposed to be able to compete against his more experienced and reigning 2 time WDC teammate Fernando Alonso, and yet he did. I don't have a problem if Ricciardo turns out to be better than Vettel. I cheer for the team first and the drivers second.

It's clear that Vettel's 4 year reign as WDC will come to an end. Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg will be the champ. Nobody is remotely close to competing against the Mercedes works team. But with the engine power plant designs locked down for the next few years, the total domination of Merc will likely continue for this year and the coming years and I am curious will the same hate some people have towards RBR and Vettel be extended to Mercedes, to Hamilton and possibly Rosberg. I always find it amusing when the so called fans show so much hate towards drivers/teams and yet this hate only exists in the minds of the so called fans. There is no hate among the teams. Why? Because the teams always have and always will know that it is the efforts of the entire team to build the best possible race cars. It's not the efforts of just one man.

LuigiVampa

I read an interesting article on the F1 website that opined that Ricciardo is better with the new RB10 because he has more recent experience with a low down force backmarker car than Vettel. It kind of makes sense. Vettel was used to slamming on the gas and going and the new cars don't work that way between the lack of downforce and the torque of the engine....ehem...power unit.

Who will kill who first?

1. Vettel and Ricciardo
2. Hammy and Nico
3. Massa and Bottas
4. Alonso and Kimi

Team orders do not seem to be going down so well on any team this year. "tough luck" The intra-team "drama" is probably the only exciting thing going this year.

Early shot of the grid for next year:

MJSpeed

^+1 on the hatred. I dislike certain drivers' attitude on the track but aside from that I respect them all. These "wars" between drivers is honestly sparked by the media.

The media supports any driver that's winning at the moment and want to start crowning them "the best ever" right away. With that I have a problem. I also have a problem with the fans of any driver that believe "their" driver can't do anything wrong and have to start making excuses as to why their driver is being beaten.

And yes I'm aware, through personal experience, that racing, like any other sport, is a business and therefore has many political complexities, but sometimes, the answer just may be as simple as, "Seb, Ricciardo is faster than you, let him by..."

multi21

It makes complete sense. If you've ever raced against someone that likes to use old tires to race vs. new(er) ones, you know that they've adapted to a car that is not locked down. Once those people get new tires, you know your in for a long day. The opposite is also true of people who only use only new tires to race. When those tires get a little old, they lose a lot of time.

I think Vettel didn't have enough time to adapt to the lack of DF in the rear because the Renault power plant was a dog in preseason testing. With more in season testing dates this year, he's likely to come to grip with the car.

BTW, I don't think Mercedes will win all the races this year. RBR probably still has the best aero and Monaco and Hungary will be their chance to put it on the top step.

ilko

I am by no means a Vettel defender, but his championships were not a fluke. He became dominant partially because he is very good - Monaco in the rain in a Toro Rosso, anyone? But also because he understood the new tires better than his teammate (and just about all of the other drivers) when F1 switched to Pirellis in 2010. Having Newey at the drawing board obviously didn't hurt. But I watched an interview with Paul Hembrey who was saying how Vettel was the only F1 driver to go to their factory and learned as much as he could about the tires before any of the other guys. And that has put him at an advantage from the get go. Webber never did get that far.

More to Luigi's point, there are drivers who are used to driving in a particular style and can't learn a different one as well. Not much different than as a fast ball specialist who has to learn the knuckle ball... Some manage, many do not.

baddogz28

Rosberg seems the most irritable in all this intra-team drama...

ilko

Naturally, because he has the most to lose. Nobody remembers the runner-ups.

jbossolo

Not much at all. Different cars.
It says volumes about Vettel's "superior driving skills", though.

And trust me, I don't "hate" Vettel. I just don't like how everybody and their mother jumped on the bandwagon and started comparing him to Schumacher, Prost, Senna, etc, after he dominated 4 years in a row while driving a car with obvious advantages. Now he has a car without such advantages, and guess what, he doesn't look so stellar anymore.

If Hammy and Merc continue to show the same level of domination for years (as Vettel/RBR did these last 4 years) I'd feel the same way about them. What is the answer? I don't know. Maybe it'd be a full-blown unrestricted formula, in which there's no limit on technology, or maybe a spec series, in which the only factor is driver skill. Who knows?

PPo

That is the reason why I didn't want to make any conclusions...

Webber is a fantastic and talented driver who will always be remembered for a great contribution to the world of F1, and will continue to make great contributions to the world of motorsports.

I think anybody would be silly to deny the above statement.

Without doubt Vettel is talented and deserves his position. What Riccardo is doing is simply impressive. The recent media posts I have read seem to indicate that Seb is being a gentlemen and respectful about the whole thing. In the heat of battle, it is difficult to maintain perspective. To me it looked like Seb did not fight Riccardo and let him pass cleanly once he realized he had no chance of keeping him behind.

9.5 Degrees

what great contributions? He started in Formula 1 in 2002 and didn't get his first win until 2009 in a championship winning car. His total win count, including a car that won 4 championships in a row......... just 9 total wins in his entire career. Hardly impressive

I'm sure he'll do fine at Le Mans, but as far as F1, Webber was a journeyman driver at best.

The demise of Sebastian Vettel is greatly exaggerated. forget about his teammate, he was passed by a Caterham for God's sake! Me thinks he was on a wet set up because of qualifying (full rain) where he qualified very high (2nd) and went backwards in the race.

baddogz28

I'd say that Vettel has more reason to be surly as he's getting outclassed consistently by Ricciardo... He's handling it (mostly) gracefully, whereas Rosberg has more of a bitchy disposition even though he's leading the championship. Just my take on it.

John H

He was instrumental in driver safety issues IIRC.