kurt M

Replacing belts evey 5 years does nothing to extend your life. On the other hand due to the fact we have to replace them time based rather than a wear based I have seen first hand people buying the bottom end rigs rather than better setups. Why not spend that money on a better belt rig and in 5 years a better fire supression system or a suit for someone that is not using one? The argument "it is cheap insurance" is not upheld by any data. It is clearly a way to increase sales on an otherwise durable device.
Why replace something that can be visualy inspected based on 0.0 data of time based failure? Thre are many items on a track car that are safety items that are visualy inspected.

With belts for many of the replacement cycles we are replacing same with same. Snell at least increases the standard a bit each time

Got to love the AU. Common sense abounds.

stownsen914

Like I said, 5 years is aggressive and covers the worst case scenario ...

kurt M

It is not "aggressive" it is baseless. Aggressive would be to do a study and set replacement when the tested values first start to drop off not when the makers of the devices and sellers of the little stickers with letters on them simply say so without backing the timeline. Real world testing of belts of all ages would not be hard to do.
Proper install far outshines age in belt safety. I see some real poor setups in cars with logbooks or DE tech stickers on them. But a solid policy on installs is not as easy as go / no go based on a number. We go by numbers and feel like something is done.

TREMPER

Thank you for your many views on this controversial subject. Let me give you the reasoning behind the PCA decision to limit the harness belt life to five years.
First of all, as Manny stated, in another thread recently, we are a volunteer organization so in many cases we must rely on professional in certain areas, the SFI and FIA certification standards. In that context, when we write a DE Standard, it is written for all 140 PCA Regions, no exception and we hope we write them to not only make our events safer but easier to run and control.
Tech inspection prior to and grid tech at events is a very important aspect of our program to ensure that we have looked at each car before it enters the track. Most of our vehicles are street driven and thus, do not have a harness system. Very few harness systems are DOT legal for the street. The OEM belt is installed by the factory and thus have the final responsibility for the integrity of the restraint system which includes the air bags. Once the DE entrant installs a harness system, that system is no longer OEM and now falls under the PCA National Standards. FIA and SFI certify belts for a set period of time, 5 and 3 years ,respectively. PCA has chosen the five year period. It is easier for our tech inspectors to look at a date of expiration than to determine how much wear is appropriate or inappropriate for use. I do not think many of us have the knowledge to accurately make that call. All harness system are made to stretch on impact to minimize damage to our internal organs. How much wear may cause that "stretch" to break? Let's make it simple, folks ...look at a date just like we do for helmets. Most of us spend more money on tires in a year, than the cost of a harness system every five years.
Pete

Clark-ApexPerformance

Most of us spend more money on tires in a year, than the cost of a harness system every five years.

Pete your statement here is ....dead on.

mooty

right on.
buy best buy latest install properly and use it right.
if only your life that matters.

dan212

I am comfortable replacing belts every five years. Can't imagine wearing the same helmet to expiration either because it gets really disgusting with wear long before.

I'm happy spending relatively minor sums of money on stuff that might keep me alive given how much I **** away on fuel, tires other consumables and general mechanical twerking.. I'm OK with doing this by date since a visual inspection is too abstract and subject to opinion.

And notice that they don't actually insist that we prove that we've replaced our belts after a serious accident. They assume that we aren't complete fools. Need a regulation there!!!

Oh but what the hell.. Its time for our semi-annual rant about replacing stuff that just might keep us alive.

JasonAndreas

During tech inspection do you check the hidden tear seam/overload indicator on any of the factory Porsche seatbelts?

quickxotica

TWERKING? Wow! How much extra does that cost?

Oh...and re: belts. I tighten mine at least once during every session. Isn't it surprising how much they stretch when they are under constant static tension plus enduring an ever-changing dynamic load-vector from your bodyweight being thrown around at 1-1.5g's all session? (Note this is apples-to-oranges different from what an OEM inertial-reel belt sees in normal use on the street, BTW).

I have no problem with a 5 year replacement cycle on a fabric component that changes shape during every single usage-cycle. How many sessions do you run in 5 years? It holds my life in the balance.

Gofishracing

I ordered new belts- I received them. My associate pointed out in the rules of NJMP that for DE belts can just be "inspected" rather than replaced on expiration date. Racers are different. Not sure of position of each PCA region on belts for DE. They ain't cheap!! I'll contact some of the local regions. I always try to comply with expected standards on my vehicle

bella1

As Pete Tremper noted, the National DE rules are the minimum standard which would apply to all regions. I just ordered mine for 2014 from OMP dealer hoping that they are 2014 and not 2013! Right I meant the new belts hopefully have 2019 instead of 2018! Hello!!

From www.pca.org

Harness Systems: ..... Due to UV degradation and wear the harness webbing must be replaced every five years. Four point systems are not allowed in Porsches because of the integrated headrest supplied by the factory. In addition to the standard SFI and/ or FIA approved 5- and/or 6-point system, a 4-point system is allowed in non-Porsches that meet the following requirements:
- Meets the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 209.
- Attaches to the factory seat belt mounting points.
- Each belt is designed to work in a specific vehicle and that vehicle tag must be attached to the belt system.

DDun911

We in NJ have become so used to government managing our lives from cradle to grave we are now incapable of deciding these things for our selves. Good thing theres a law in NJ or we would be using bungies.

Gofishracing

Bungies !! yes!! I remember when EMRA used vice grips as fuel regulators on some of their cars. After adjustment they would use racers tape to attach to fire wall. !!! I think they also had soldered rollcages. lol- It's just weird that NJMP would exclude DE when originally I remember the State Troppers were check belts on Thunderbolt tech.. . I'm just looking for confirmation from Local Chapters that these will be checked at Tech. I am also going to check with NASA, HOD, FCA, FOC, SCDA, etc out of curiosity. - they probably need to check with the insurance underwriters on this technicality. ( new belt are dated 2019)

Gofishracing

NNJR PCA- yes- belts need replacement for DE- on Tech form. NASA- inspection at DE for belt condition only- Racers must replace. HOD - inspect only.

GTgears

My first career was in the rock climbing and mountaineering industry. The webbing used in waist harnesses and slings and runners for protection is very similar to seat belt webbing. All the climbing manufacturers strongly suggested replacing everything every 5 years.

Their claim was that the nylon loses 10% of its strength per year due to uv exposure and other degradation. So after 5 years they asserted that the webbing was now only 50% as strong as when new.

A lot of climbers use the stuff for much longer than that. I see guys at the crags wearing harnesses that haven't been made since the 90's. Its their life and their choice.

But when you get a track, and a sanctioning body, and insurance involved it becomes a different game. It may not be 100% agreeable but it really does make sense.

Just today I am buying a set of expired Sparcos for my 912 hot rod. Car will never see the track but you can bet those 2010 Sparcos are safer than my 1967 lap belts.