Veloce Raptor

Jack, I do have a question. it sounds in your video as if you are not really rev-matching on downshifts. i wonder if you'd be able to carry slightly higher entry speeds (as well as be easier on yoru car) if you did? Might be worth a couple tenths at each corner requiring a downshift...

multi21

Willow Springs will produce these type of results in unequal cars (on paper at least). When comparing my times in my 996 GT3 and 944 Spec race car (cars that couldn't be more different) the time delta between the two cars with the same driver and both on 100 TW rubber was way less than the tracks at Auto Club Speedway, Buttonwillow, Chuckwalla, Spring Mountain etc.

The mechanical grip that is available to each car is more important at Willow Springs IMO.

As others have said, knowing the track intimately AND the confidence in the NT01 (great all purpose tires) surely help!

Cory M

Jack is your car 2420 with driver? I believe the cup weight you quoted is a bit low and doesn't include the driver.

Buy some Hoosiers already!

tonypai

Per Google, I found Cup Car weights from 3170-3480 pounds. Not sure of the exact weight of that specific car. But that could explain the speed differences. A lot less weight for Jack to manage through the corners allowing higher speeds and the higher horsepower Cup car would be faster on the straights.

quickxotica

The vMin comparison is tantalizing, but ultimately I don't think it's very meaningful.

Segment times are where you'll see the truth revealed (even if you exclude the straight following track out and only compare brake-point-to-track-out segments).

Also missing from this discussion are differences in LINE. Cars as different as these may require substantially different technique) And it IS possible for a faster line (or, said another way, a superior sequence of driver-inputs) will involve a lower vMin. You would not be able to discern such situations from only comparing vMins.

Still....... f*cking awesome car Jack!! Color me jealous.

Cory M

That's way too high, probably the street car weight. The Porsche specs list the 997 cup weight as 1160kg (2557lbs). So I figure the delta is closer to 300lb if Jack's vehicle weight includes driver.

The cornering speed comparison doesn't surprise me much, I've experienced the same thing on track in mixed traffic.

JackOlsen

How'd I miss all this discussion?

Jump to the video at the end of this post. It's uploading as I type. I took the full segment from the entrance to turn 3 to the exit of turn 5 for each car. I figured that would cancel out some of the Cup Car's horsepower advantage, since I don't stand a chance there. It's the most technical part of the track, and the slowest. There's an argument to be made that it's where the slicks and the modern suspension should make a difference, although the ~115-lb weight difference does give me some advantage there. But remember, we're talking semi-trailing arms and all the old VW-style stuff the 911 started out with.

You might be surprised by the result.

Ok. You won't be surprised. And thank you.

It's a pretty impressive tire, I'd say. Although if I had the money to leave it behind, I'm sure I would be even happier with something stickier.

Thanks. I have a lot of laps at Willow, having been going there now for over a decade. I don't know if 'comfortable' or 'confident' describe me so much as 'informed from having gone off every corner of the track multiple times.' But the end effect might be the same.

I wouldn't call this scientific, just interesting. The Cup Car is definitely the faster car and the other driver is definitely better than me.

Thanks. Brent Holden isn't an average Joe, really. But I don't know how long his name had been on the windshield of this car at this point. I assume with a little set-up work his lap times continued to drop down further.

I do rev match on my downshifts. It's pretty clear in some of my videos. Sometimes the sound synch is off on these clips, since I pull audio from the rear-facing camera.

No, it does not include the driver. I think I'm up around 2,650 with all my aero, other gear and chubby self in the car.

Thanks. The segment time test did surprise me. I'll put it at the end of this post.

I've got to assume this was Holden's fastest time that day, so I don't think traffic is/was a big issue. It was an open lap for me, too.

Okay, here's what I did. It's not very straightforward, since the camera lenses in each car are not in the the same position or with the same depth. But I pulled out a clip from a patched mark right before turn 3 and went through to the start of the rumble strip for turn 6. There's only one small straight included in the segment, which the Cup Car definitely out-accelerates me on. But I didn't correct for that. The segment is mostly corners and so is mostly going to reflect suspension performance over acceleration.

I tried pulling the segments a couple of times, working to get as fair a comparison as possible. In some of them, we were almost dead even. In some tries, I was almost 1/10th of a second quicker through the segment. I used the one that favors the other guy the most, where the difference was a single frame of video -- which in this case is 1/25th of a second.

Now, again -- there are Cup Car laps out there with significantly lower overall times. But I don't have one of those with speed data overlaid. Those guys would definitely be quicker through this segment than I am. If I get a chance, I'll pull the same segment from the Audi R8 footage in the 1:19 lap and I have no doubt it will be much quicker than me, in spite of my occasional higher low-speed-at-corner-entry moments. (Does that make any sense?)

Here's the video:

KaiB

But still....

flatsics

A side by side with this video is actually quite interesting, verdict:
Jack, you haul some serious *** at Big Willow.
One of my favorite cars, Tyson worked some magic on that suspension.

JackOlsen

Aspesi gets me by 1-1/3 seconds through the segment (and by 5.35 seconds for the lap).

So, definitely score one for the Cup Cars.

But thanks.

flatsics

I think its a 997 Cup car, but not sure of its configuration.
Does seem more representative of what the new cars are capable of.

JackOlsen

Well, it's the fastest of all the Cup Cars, for years, in a very fast region for Porsche racing.

It's definitely faster than me.

mooty

jack is not familiar with TH, when i drove with him years ago. if he drove it more often, i think he can get to 1:54 or 1:55 pretty easily with the car if not faster.

oh, make sure you stablized that big wing. it scares me hahaha.

winders

Going over the top of 5?

That makes his car faster than all but 1 or 2 GTL cars...most of which weigh less, have more power, have better aero, and have a lot more rubber on the road. I kind of doubt it....

Even if you are talking about using the bypass I think that is a stretch....

JackOlsen

Turns 11 and 14 mean I'll never have enough power to be really quick at Thunderhill. I think I could improve on my old numbers (1:59 w/bypass, 2:01 w/the cyclone) with a little more seat time there. Thunderhill is not as simple a track as people think.

But you need horsepower to do really well there.