JoshuaB

We charge $100 for instructors and $225 for everyone else…

We are fortunate that it has been since our April 2012 event since we had a shortage of instructors at our events, last 4 event we have had an overage of instructors… We have lots or regulars, instructors and drivers and we very much appreciate all of them.

It really is not as easy as just don’t give a T-shirt or don’t do social events, or charge individually for them. We have done many, many, many polls to our die-hards, regulars, sometimes attending and brand new green students to see what would entice them to continue coming to our events or get them to come more often…the number one thing is to keep costs reasonable, then to get a T-shirt, then to have socials. Based on real data we continuously get from our attendees, we do our best to balance everything we offer…

Some regions have increased their costs for students/solo drivers and we have picked some of them up as there are many events at RRR (our home track) that everyone one can choose from.
One region raises their prices up too high, and another region picks up some of their possible attendees. A region starts to cut out some of what it offers, the same thing.

I think what 85Gold wrote “PCA DE is a Dedication and Marque event and not just about track time.” is spot on…it is about wanting to come and support PCA and for most of the instructors that we are fortunate to have support our events through their attendance that is the case… Our goal is to simply break even or have a small overage on an annualized basis. On average we have about 25% of our attendees that are members of our region of PCA, so we cannot run the program at a loss when that equates to 25-40 members at most. RRR is a short track, so if we max out every run group, total attendance is at most 140.

Upstate101

Not to divert the subject, but what is the process of cultivating/recruiting instructors? Is there generally a method of identifying white group students to progress to the instructor rank? I'm sure that this varies from region to region in the PCA and with other organizations, and that if I have to ask I'm probably not ready.

Driver8

Here is a link to CVR's advancement guidelines

http://www.cvrpca.org/docs/de/de-advancement-2013.pdf

ChrisFL

There are definitely some race teams testing and tuning, but because they have enough track time in the advanced group, it doesn't mess up everyone else. In the advanced group, it seems like everyone is very track aware so speed differentials arent that big of a problem. In another group that I'd rather not mention, cups and other racers went out in the NOVICE and Intermediate instructed group! talk about speed differential. Overall, I'm not there to pay for the racers track rental day.... I want track time as much as the next guy

Doug007

Chin also charges an instructor fee for novice students. That's what pays for the instructors along with higher entry fees in general.

Gofishracing

CVR is the toughest region. Historically the premiere in NE. Even my original Instructor guide for PDA/NASA came from their materials with their permission

Manifold

I think Chin is really the model. Lots of track time for everyone, one student per instructor, events fill up, safety record seems good, good balance of rules and freedom, free for instructors, reasonable price for everyone else, and they make a profit. Cost may seem higher than PCA, but you get twice the seat time, so two Chin days equals four PCA days, which means saving on hotel an other costs, and less time away from work or family, so the overall value is excellent.

Gary R.

It usually takes over one full season to become a CVR Instructor, including National training, mentoring, and the 6 DE days you have a student but still not a full instructor, followed by yet one more checkout ride!

JoshuaB

I think that might be a good model for those drivers that are truly enthusiasts, such as the types that spend time on car forums like Rennlist because we cannot get enough of this stuff… but that is just one type of driver. We get regular drivers that only do our RRR events, which is 3 per year. They don’t live and breathe this sport…they enjoy it but don’t have the same passion for it. They are not looking for hours and hours of track time. They are looking to spend about what it costs to do an event at RRR with us, enough track time that they have fun, enough off track time so that can socialize with friends or check out cars in the paddock, just read a book or have some down time in the outside air.

Chin and all the similar organizations across the country are a great option for people. Test and tune days like the ones Bob Woodman does are great. Private days are also fantastic, if you have never had the opportunity to rent a track with a group of friends, small enough to use the track’s insurance you should try it…absolutely fantastic. It is not a one model fits all. PCA events are not that different from other car clubs like say the BMW DE events...

Mark Dreyer

Josh you make some good points. There is a nice social atmosphere at the RRR track events.

JoshuaB

Thanks Mark...I expect to see you at our next event

Mark Dreyer

If Boxzilla ever gets out of transmission hospital I'll be there!

Manifold

Yes, valid points. Nothing wrong with the PCA model being different from the Chin model as long as PCA can make the finances, etc. work (I instruct with three PCA regions myself). But it's key that PCA do what it takes to keep instructors coming back, recognizing that they do have options.

Mikelly

I instructed with Chin this summer, and I had a student in an S2000. It was the event the day after OAKtree fell. Chin runs a great show and expects drivers and instructors to give their all. I loved it. I have driven with them previously, but instructing with them was a whole different gig.

Loved it and my student was promoted to solo under HEAVY scrutiny. In the end, the chief checkout instructor agreed with my assessment. My guy was certainly ready to bump to solo.

MGW-Fla

I have attended 5 DEs the past 2 yrs. All were at RRR, four with Fla Crown & one with Citrus. As a student progressing up the ladder, I can say that both regions did a great job with their events. Josh(& Bert D too), and their volunteers impress me with how smooth things run & the effort they put in. Every instructor that I've had has taught me something vital. And two were non Porsche drivers. Perhaps I just continue to have a lot that I need to learn.

I've read about there being lots of options for instructors and they should get everything free. I have no problems with that if it was possible without making it cost prohibitive for me. The thought of having to trust your life with someone you just met on a track is something I'm not sure I could do. But it should also be kept in mind, that just like there are many options for instructors, there are also many options for drivers too. At least in Fla & Ga. RRR alone has some kind of DE or track days offered about 3 weekends a month by a variety of groups, including 3 PCA regions that use it.

As a student(especially when starting in Green), being on a smaller track like RRR can become a bit crowded when your run group has 25-30 drivers. Once while driving around the track, I had the thought that it felt about the same as a drive I had on I-95 the previous week during rush hour. At least instead of my wife telling me how to drive it was a qualified instructor! Still not too much fun at that moment. Conversely, being in a group recently that had about a dozen cars in it was, well.... heaven! I was really able to concentrate on learning to drive my car. The potential to choose a DE with fewer drivers in my run group versus one that is maxed out is a consideration. I'd pay more for that.

I agree that supporting PCA & your specific region is impt. That's a big consideration to me. To be able to see friends you know & to meet new ones too. I've convinced friends & family to attend these DEs with me. One friend who was a non P-car owner, bought a Cayman about 6 wks after his 1st DE. Because of the economics of making a DE stay in the black, non Porsche cars are allowed to participate too. They are vital for these PCA DEs to even happen. There is no preference given for PCA members or Porsche owners, versus those that are not, either in cost or preference of registration. I know that some give PCA members a fee break. That is ok with me either way.

I'd be at a track every other weekend if I could take that kind of time away from running a small business & convince my wife it was ok without having to find a divorce lawyer. So no matter how great a bargain it may be compared to other groups or other regions, the cost of hotels, gas, car maintenance, car upgrades, time away, etc. are other factors I still have to consider. So if the costs go up too much in any category, then I'm probably having to schedule less DEs in my year. I want instead to add more! And Please Keep the T-shirts. Every one I know loves em & looks forward to them.