Red Bull and traction control?
10-10-2013, 11:13 AM
#31
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How is RBR doing TC with KERS?
Seems pretty simple to me, once you think about it. Torque is torque; just change the sign. Could lay out the algorithm right now...
Very easy; the only challenge is making the heat equation balance... as RBR has found.
If they are really smart, they have partial shutdown and recovery modes. I guess that's what "Fail 22" means.
Damn, I think I'm gonna need to figure out how to package a KERS unit on my DSR now...
Seems pretty simple to me, once you think about it. Torque is torque; just change the sign. Could lay out the algorithm right now...
Very easy; the only challenge is making the heat equation balance... as RBR has found.
If they are really smart, they have partial shutdown and recovery modes. I guess that's what "Fail 22" means.
Damn, I think I'm gonna need to figure out how to package a KERS unit on my DSR now...
10-10-2013, 11:27 AM
#32
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Suzuka is much different from previous two track so if there is some illegal system helping RB to get of slow corners, it won't work as well there anyway.
One thing though, there's no way they've had this (if they have anything) for a long time, especially last year of even before that, you don't keep a secret in F1 for longer than 3-5 races.
Love Suzuka, nice to see the circus back on real race track and not some Tilke created.
One thing though, there's no way they've had this (if they have anything) for a long time, especially last year of even before that, you don't keep a secret in F1 for longer than 3-5 races.
Love Suzuka, nice to see the circus back on real race track and not some Tilke created.
10-10-2013, 11:43 AM
#33
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are the aero regs for 2014 very different? I know the new engines and KERS stuff will require different packaging and aero changes but assuming you could squoosh the new drivetrain into a current car, would it be legal? Asked another way, how much of the current aero design will be used in the new cars?
10-10-2013, 01:02 PM
#34
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are the aero regs for 2014 very different? I know the new engines and KERS stuff will require different packaging and aero changes but assuming you could squoosh the new drivetrain into a current car, would it be legal? Asked another way, how much of the current aero design will be used in the new cars?
The weight limit is going up to accommodate the new regs, but some are arguing for more min. weight to go up so that these drivers that are close to 6' and 160 lbs. don't have such a hard time finding a ride. All teams are well under weight, but like to put the ballast where they want for balance purposes rather than have the driver take up that weight.
Several years ago, BMW asked Kubica to lose 15-20 lbs off his tall frame. He did, and the car's performance increased because of the luxury of placing that weight where they wanted.
10-10-2013, 01:46 PM
#35
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The nose will be lower in 2014, it will be 185 mm instead of current 550 mm.
The front wing will be narrower, it will be 1650 mm instead of 1800 mm.
Also the rear wing will be different with no lower beam wing allowed.
The front wing will be narrower, it will be 1650 mm instead of 1800 mm.
Also the rear wing will be different with no lower beam wing allowed.
10-10-2013, 02:52 PM
#36
The joke of the matter is many of the rules now days are put in place to help control cost/spending, to help the mid-small teams keep up and not go under... RB/Ferrari/Merc F1 could all spend basically whatever they want on every development to keep up or ahead, but the other teams need to pick and choose... However, by putting such restrictive rules in place, the big 3 are forced to spend even more to find ways around them (both legal and R&D), and they do so successfully... its a death spiral that ends up with mid-pack teams spending over their heads to play catch-up, small teams falling further behind since they can't spend, and the big teams always continuing to innovate while spending 400/500M a year...
If the FIA really wanted to cut costs, they would:
1 - put a cap on HP/trq (and they can dyno / use telemetry to confirm)
2 - standard ecu's (they do this)
3 - downforce caps (they can track real-time using telemetry. This would cap the benefit of all these little things that cost 40m to find... but allow each manufacturer to get to the cap any way they would like..)
4 - weight (they do this)
If the FIA really wanted to cut costs, they would:
1 - put a cap on HP/trq (and they can dyno / use telemetry to confirm)
2 - standard ecu's (they do this)
3 - downforce caps (they can track real-time using telemetry. This would cap the benefit of all these little things that cost 40m to find... but allow each manufacturer to get to the cap any way they would like..)
4 - weight (they do this)
Make a spending limit to allow other teams to flourish - but lessen the stupid technical restrictions. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of technology in motorsport. 250m or whatever (a rational limit), and you need to have four wheels and an engine and a driver. Thats it. Maybe say a specific fuel to keep the diesels from winning everything.
Buts its all french and italian run - so there will never be any rational rule making like that.
10-10-2013, 03:27 PM
#37
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You guys should give this article a read,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24386679
The article is written by former designer, Gary Anderson. He explains the blown diffuser RBR is using this season and how Vettel gets the most out of it. He also lists the other teams that are doing the same blowing. One of them is Sauber and many witnessed the traction that car had coming out of slow corners at Korea.
The blown diffuser RBR is using puts a lot of energy into the rear tires. Which is why they were burning them up early in the season. The compounds switched to 2012, they were able to maximize their blown diffuser, now they dominate.
Additionally, if RBR were using a form of traction control, why did Rosberg pull away from Vettel at the start of Singapore?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24386679
The article is written by former designer, Gary Anderson. He explains the blown diffuser RBR is using this season and how Vettel gets the most out of it. He also lists the other teams that are doing the same blowing. One of them is Sauber and many witnessed the traction that car had coming out of slow corners at Korea.
The blown diffuser RBR is using puts a lot of energy into the rear tires. Which is why they were burning them up early in the season. The compounds switched to 2012, they were able to maximize their blown diffuser, now they dominate.
Additionally, if RBR were using a form of traction control, why did Rosberg pull away from Vettel at the start of Singapore?
10-10-2013, 03:28 PM
#38
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This is nothing new and all about the cat and mouse nature of F1 and all motorsports really down to the club racing level. Remember the flexible front wings? How about the flexible rear wing element that would flatten when traveling over a certain speed due to the DF and therefore create a higher straight line speed and then goes back to shape under braking ie lower speed?
10-10-2013, 03:43 PM
#39
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Speaking of 2014 regs, perhaps the 2 most important regs that teams will have to meet is they can only use 100kg of fuel per race. It no longer matters what the size of the fuel tank is, you are only allotted 100kg - period. If an engine is not efficient, then you need to run at a slower pace to get to the end (totally crappy rule IMHO).
Speaking of engines, the other new rule is that you are limited to IIRC 5 engines for the entire season. Given the fact that the season is proposed to be longer, up to 22 races but more likely to be 20, coupled with the fact that these are new V6 turbos have unknown reliability and testing is limited, I can't imagine the 2014 season not being won by who can run the slowest and not have engine blowups
Speaking of engines, the other new rule is that you are limited to IIRC 5 engines for the entire season. Given the fact that the season is proposed to be longer, up to 22 races but more likely to be 20, coupled with the fact that these are new V6 turbos have unknown reliability and testing is limited, I can't imagine the 2014 season not being won by who can run the slowest and not have engine blowups
10-10-2013, 04:09 PM
#40
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I'd like to hear about how good people think Vettel is now in light of this article and evidence, assuming you believe it. Personally, I do. F1 is a sport that rewards those as close to perfection as possible and you don't gain as much of an advantage as Vettel has over Webber and his rivals without some help that is unique to you. I also am paying a lot of attention to the comment about Webber's engine note sounding compared to Vettel's. 2010 they were neck and neck. Then Vettel pulled away. Maturation? Not that much.
Vettel is Schuey II. Very good driver, but much better at aligning himself with the right people off the track.
Vettel is Schuey II. Very good driver, but much better at aligning himself with the right people off the track.
10-10-2013, 05:14 PM
#41
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Webber has been hammered both inside and outside his team. That he can circulate 'almost' as quickly as Vettel is a testament to his skills, both as a driver and diplomat. Yes, diplomat. How many drivers would put up with this crap for the last few years. Being paid a lot of money to drive the 2nd car in the best team makes up for it, but it would be incredibly frustrating for him personally. Glad he's getting out and going to Porsche. Maybe he'll get to drive as good a car as his team mates.
10-11-2013, 05:41 AM
#43
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Now that is kinda funny. I'll cop that. :-)
10-14-2013, 05:10 PM
#45
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While I respect the cat and mouse, I do believe they have a system like Minardi describes, and that it is cheating.
There is pretty much no grey area here. The regs don't say anything about it only being banned in the ecu:
It doesn't say that device/system must be for *solely* providing traction control, so IMO inventive management of KERS would count as illegal TC per the above.
There is pretty much no grey area here. The regs don't say anything about it only being banned in the ecu:
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru.../8710/fia.html
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.