Neck Collar versus HANS
06-27-2013, 08:57 AM
#31
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Interesting thought that the neck collar could be worse than nothing at all. When driving at most HPDE's I only drive 20-30 minutes at a time, 4 to 6 sessions a day which is not enough to tire my neck. When instructing, and being in the car twice as much at least, it does help with fatigue I agree.
However the main reason I have always worn it is that I thought it offers some level of protection in a crash. If in fact it offers no protection and perhaps "provides a fulcrum" that could exacerbate the situation, then I need to rethink using it at all.
Hopefully somebody can shed some light on safety in a modern car with active restraints (airbags) and 3 point belts including the potential additional benefit (or lack) of an R3 type restraint system. It does say on the Simpson site that the R3 is not dependent on seat belts. It does not say that for the Rage/Hybrid system.
However the main reason I have always worn it is that I thought it offers some level of protection in a crash. If in fact it offers no protection and perhaps "provides a fulcrum" that could exacerbate the situation, then I need to rethink using it at all.
Hopefully somebody can shed some light on safety in a modern car with active restraints (airbags) and 3 point belts including the potential additional benefit (or lack) of an R3 type restraint system. It does say on the Simpson site that the R3 is not dependent on seat belts. It does not say that for the Rage/Hybrid system.
06-27-2013, 09:03 AM
#32
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Well hell, I was hoping you had something more on the R3. I too want a setup that can offer some improvement to stock seat/belt setups. Once you get used to a 6 point, H&N, full containment, side nets, cage and fire supression getting into the right seat of a hopped up car with stock seats and belts feels a bit exposed.
The R3 makers would do well to test the device with 3 point and if it does work better than nothing ether use the info as a true sell point or limit legal exposure and say don't use it with 3 points.
The R3 makers would do well to test the device with 3 point and if it does work better than nothing ether use the info as a true sell point or limit legal exposure and say don't use it with 3 points.
06-27-2013, 09:57 AM
#34
The Penguin King
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06-27-2013, 10:09 AM
#35
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06-27-2013, 10:09 AM
#36
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06-27-2013, 10:13 AM
#37
What?!?!?! I have a friend who works at a place in Michigan that makes crash test dummies. Ummmmm, they are/were designed to test cars with (wait for it) a 3 point harness! At around 100k for a dummy, they better not break!
-Mike
06-27-2013, 10:57 AM
#40
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I rolled a Formula Ford at high speed 15 years ago when a simple neck collar was pretty much standard fare. I distinctly remember the violent side to side movement of my head and the collar did limit some of the movement, but not much. Better than nothing in that case.
I use an R3 with a 6 point harness in the Porsche. I am sceptical it would work very well with a 3 point harness as so much of it's stability is based on the back section being held rigidly in place. The chest strap does some of that but the back plate gets a lot of additional security from being held in place by your torso strapped tightly to the seat.
When your head moves forward the force is counteracted by the bottom of the back plate staying tight against your spine. Unless you are tightly restrained against the seat there is nothing other than the strap pulling against your chest to stop the back plate moving away from your spine. It would still limit the movement but all the force would be on your chest without the extra support of the seat. Maybe that's enough to work better than nothing, but your head is still going to move a lot more than if your are strapped in tight with shoulder straps to keep you from bending forward.
Unrestrained people are pretty bendy when the forces are high enough!
I use an R3 with a 6 point harness in the Porsche. I am sceptical it would work very well with a 3 point harness as so much of it's stability is based on the back section being held rigidly in place. The chest strap does some of that but the back plate gets a lot of additional security from being held in place by your torso strapped tightly to the seat.
When your head moves forward the force is counteracted by the bottom of the back plate staying tight against your spine. Unless you are tightly restrained against the seat there is nothing other than the strap pulling against your chest to stop the back plate moving away from your spine. It would still limit the movement but all the force would be on your chest without the extra support of the seat. Maybe that's enough to work better than nothing, but your head is still going to move a lot more than if your are strapped in tight with shoulder straps to keep you from bending forward.
Unrestrained people are pretty bendy when the forces are high enough!
06-27-2013, 11:40 AM
#41
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Why not Halo HANS? Extend the HANS back plate to partially envelop both sides of the helmet and form a halo to limit sideways movement?
06-27-2013, 01:32 PM
#42
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06-27-2013, 02:34 PM
#43
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This is how I view it as well. I only use a horse collar when I'm in the right seat in a student's car with 3-point belts. I've found that it really helps limit the fatigue and soreness that I get from not being in the driver seat.
06-27-2013, 02:58 PM
#44
The Penguin King
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I'm no doctor, but the collars worry me. Seems to me that they have the potential to apply forces to the neck in directions that it was never designed to deal with.
06-27-2013, 03:09 PM
#45
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