John's 991

There have been lots of posts recently about the importance of safety when on the track, including DE and it got me thinking.

I wear a full face helmet whenever I am on the track, however as my 991S is totally stock using 6 point belts and a HANS is not an option, so I wear a neck collar. This seems better than nothing, but I am curious if anybody has a quantifiable comparison to a HANS.

When racing, I will wear a 3 layer nomex suit, shoes, gloves, balaclava and HANS. However, I am resistant to turning the 991 into a race car, but strongly believe to fully enjoy it, it needs to be driven on the track.

jdistefa

neck collar is pretty much useless

if you don't want to use 6 point belts buy an R3 head and neck restraint system

Sterling Doc

A neck collar might help fatigue, but don't think of it as a safety item - no data to support that.

As above, an R3 is effective without the need for a harness.

John's 991

Thanks guys, good advice.

When I was looking at the R3 I saw the Simpson Hybrid Pro which looks like a good alternative as well. It looks less bulky and more comfortable to wear for long periods than the R3. It is also FIA approved which could make it a potential replacement for the HANS. It uses the same anchor points as well.

CRex

Neck collar = karting device. Doesn't do much for in-car impacts at speed.

Hans only protects you against from front-back movements. In that sense an R3 is arguably better.

kk2

If using a non halo seat with 6 point.. is r3 a better choice than hans?

kurt M

I still have not been able to find any data to show this to be true. You have far more exp in this area and I wonder what you base this on. Most people answer that it looks like or sounds like it would.

The manu skirts the issue with clever wording. While it sounds reasonable there is nothing to show that an R3 without proper dual shoulder belts does anything at all in a high G event. Body deformation negates the chest strap and back board from being held in the needed position. This is even more so with a 3 point belt where deformation is fully expected. The key to a hans device is to keep the head in a safe range of the shoulders. Without the T portion of the R3 being held to the shoulders in a high G event it can move around far in excess of the distance that a BSF can occur in. The chest strap does not hold the R3 from sliding up the back. If your body is bent over in a "C" shape up the back is what it will want to do. A "C" shape is just what happens in a impact when 3 point belts are used and in fact seen even a full 6 point system to a lesser extent.
Watch a high G sled or in car wreck. The body folds forward and the crown of your head points to the impact point. A hans device is tasked with keeping your head from moving away from your shoulders while in this condition not while you are sitting neat and clean and upright.
I am not saying the R3 is a bad system I am saying people often assigning the R3 values it has not been shown to have. False safety is worse than no safety.

ApexPerformance

Simpson/Safety Solutions claims the R3 is not dependent on the shoulder belts. I believe the Hybrid requires shoulder belts to work correctly so you would not be able to use it with a stock 3-point seatbelt. The R3 works like a cantilever with the body as the unit is longer and goes down the spine of the back. The Hybrid is much shorter and basically sits at the top back area of the shoulders.

ltc

The foam neck collar is slowly being replaced with Leatt and Valhalla H&N restraints.
My son was the first kid to receive permission to wear a Leatt brace for the (now defunct) Indy Racing League Snap On Stars of Karting, as well as the Florida Winter Tour.
Most people laughed, almost none of them were even aware what BSF was

Karting neck injuries are different from a car in that since there is no roll cage and you are in the seat, in the event of a rollover, your head is the highest point and the entire weight of the kart ends up compressing your spine.
It's quite common to see karts flip and result in upside down events.
You can also have a more typical BSF injury if the kart goes off track and comes to a sudden stop, although in this scenario since there are no harnesses, the driver is thrown forward, rather than his torso remaining stationary and his head/neck decelerating forward.

(unfortunately for smaller kids who do not have fully developed sternums, they are thrown directly into the steering wheel and column, resulting in severe blunt force trauma to the chest. IIRC, there have been 2 fatalities due to this and it was the driving reason behind requiring kids under 12 to wear mandatory chest protectors (armor))

My son tested the Leatt. He was forced off track by another competitor, rolled and ended up upside down.
When I arrived, the paramedics were cutting his racing suit off and he wasn't moving.
Fortunately, he ended up with just a broken shoulder and foot, cracked helmet but no H&N injuries of any kind.
I sent the device back to Leatt and they were kind enough to send a new device "for having tested the device"

It was amazing how quickly after that you started to see kids wearing Leatt braces at karting races and parents coming up to me asking me where to buy one. I spent many hours helping them properly fit them to their drivers.

I would never allow my kid to drive with a foam collar. I never liked them from the start when he began racing and I don't like them now.
Having witnessed his wreck, I know what would have happened had he not been wearing that Leatt brace.

TXE36

I don't know about that wrt an R3. I have an R3 and it restrains front to back, but there is no restraint that I can feel side to side while wearing it.

-Mike

OGRacing

Kurt, thanks for saying what I've said for years about the R3. In all those years I have requested the data where ANY device has been tested with 3 point belts. I asked the developer of the R3 and got nothing.When it was sold to Simpson I asked repeatedly for this data. I never received it. Never was shown it. And I still ask and get the same answer. If there's any data then let's see it. I'm not saying that the R3 device doesn't work with just 3 point belts, nobody knows. When the day comes that someone is involved in an incident while wearing one, using a 3 point belt we all know where it's going to end up. At that point if there is any data the court will see it. I hope it doesn't come to that.

OG Racing will still tell our customers that we do not recommend using the R3 without harnesses. Sometimes we have to tell people things they don't want to hear. Sorry. Same thing with harnesses. Either use them the way they're supposed to be used or don't use them at all.

Sorry if this isn't what everyone wants to hear.

Bill

jdistefa

Bill, I want you lie to me. Tell me the R3 works while I'm wearing a lap belt and a speedo. Also tell me I'm beautiful. Ok?

OGRacing

Please post pics before I make the decision. Or maybe we could have on line voting. Let your friends decide if you're a 1 or a 10 in that attire.

Carrera51

Neck collars will not provide the same protection as a proper head and neck restraint in the event of an impact.

As far as the R3 goes, I second what Bill and Kurt said.

jdistefa

Remember, you asked.

I use the crucifix as a belly restraint system.