Alignment Suggestion Needed... 997.1 C4S on street tires
04-08-2013, 08:50 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Alignment Suggestion Needed... 997.1 C4S on street tires
I am looking for some alignment suggestions for a stock PASM 997.1 C4S, on MPSS, Ferodo 2500 pads (not race pads, but can get pretty hot), for summer doing street/track, 90% street, planning to do 4-5 DE events.
I bought the GT3 LCAs last year, yet to install. I am leaning towards something close to GT3 alignment, as this is still a street car 90% of the time... but that's a totally different suspension setup so not sure if I can just take those numbers and apply?
Here are the Performance alignment setting for C4S vs. GT3... if I moved front camber to -1.5 (street tires), would that be good enough? I then need to set the toe, but not sure if I use GT3 numbers or something else to ensure it stays straight on the street, and doesn't wear too much of the tire during normal driving.
Any recommendation is appreciated... Thanks!
PS. I know track junkies and racers go crazy negative camber, but please keep in mind, this is my daily car, plus I am an intermediate driver.
I bought the GT3 LCAs last year, yet to install. I am leaning towards something close to GT3 alignment, as this is still a street car 90% of the time... but that's a totally different suspension setup so not sure if I can just take those numbers and apply?
Here are the Performance alignment setting for C4S vs. GT3... if I moved front camber to -1.5 (street tires), would that be good enough? I then need to set the toe, but not sure if I use GT3 numbers or something else to ensure it stays straight on the street, and doesn't wear too much of the tire during normal driving.
Any recommendation is appreciated... Thanks!
PS. I know track junkies and racers go crazy negative camber, but please keep in mind, this is my daily car, plus I am an intermediate driver.
04-10-2013, 02:16 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
No one? I guess our basic stock cars don't cut it in this crowd! 
04-10-2013, 07:16 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Do you not enjoy its handling with the stock alignment? You could increase the front camber and reduce the toe-in a little bit if you want, but the camber will make you wear out the insides of the tires more on the street.
04-10-2013, 07:52 AM
#4
install the gt3 lca
-2 camber front with zero toe
-1.5 camber rear with 2mm per side toe in
- because the rear of the car is where the weight is, it is the rear comber that really kills the inner edges
- adding more front camber is a bit of a free ride since there isn't nearly as much weight that kills the tires
- getting more camber in the front than the rear is what you need to make the car work on the track
The standard typical gt3 and RS setups for tires choices in the 245/255 & 305/315/325/335 rear are
Almost Pure Track
- 2.6 front, 1/8 total toe out
- 2.3 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Hybrib
- 2.3 front, zero toe
-1.7 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Few DEs
-2 front, 1/8 total toe in
-1.5 rear, 2mm per side toe in
From lots of experience, you really want to get your front camber to at least -2 with zero toe and then set up the rear to have less camber than that but keep 2mm per side toe in for braking stability
I run my gt3 with the hybrid setup and it works perfectly on the street. If it was a true daily I would run my Few DE setup above.
Hope that helps
-2 camber front with zero toe
-1.5 camber rear with 2mm per side toe in
- because the rear of the car is where the weight is, it is the rear comber that really kills the inner edges
- adding more front camber is a bit of a free ride since there isn't nearly as much weight that kills the tires
- getting more camber in the front than the rear is what you need to make the car work on the track
The standard typical gt3 and RS setups for tires choices in the 245/255 & 305/315/325/335 rear are
Almost Pure Track
- 2.6 front, 1/8 total toe out
- 2.3 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Hybrib
- 2.3 front, zero toe
-1.7 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Few DEs
-2 front, 1/8 total toe in
-1.5 rear, 2mm per side toe in
From lots of experience, you really want to get your front camber to at least -2 with zero toe and then set up the rear to have less camber than that but keep 2mm per side toe in for braking stability
I run my gt3 with the hybrid setup and it works perfectly on the street. If it was a true daily I would run my Few DE setup above.
Hope that helps
04-10-2013, 08:51 AM
#5
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You can probably get close to -2 degrees in the front without lower control arms. There should be enough adjustment in the strut tops for that.
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Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
04-10-2013, 10:22 AM
#6
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The most I was able to get in my 997.1 C2 was -1.0 with the stock control arms. This did help the car some, and for a few DE's per year is probably ok. I would try to see if you can get enough camber with stock LCA's before putting in the GT3 versions.
04-10-2013, 09:22 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Alex,
I tracked a 997.1 C4S for a year before 'retiring' the car from the track. Here's my two cents: if you are tracking on street tires and the car is your DD, don't change anything. Go to the track and have fun or else you will go down the slippery slope to ruining the car. I went all the way from street tires to race slicks. In a AWD car you can't get much camber in the front without changing the top hats. I ended with a suspension system of a race car. Lost of fun but not the friendliest DD.
Also, if you are doing to your car, go to Porsche race shop and get it done properly.
I tracked a 997.1 C4S for a year before 'retiring' the car from the track. Here's my two cents: if you are tracking on street tires and the car is your DD, don't change anything. Go to the track and have fun or else you will go down the slippery slope to ruining the car. I went all the way from street tires to race slicks. In a AWD car you can't get much camber in the front without changing the top hats. I ended with a suspension system of a race car. Lost of fun but not the friendliest DD.
Also, if you are doing to your car, go to Porsche race shop and get it done properly.
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04-11-2013, 02:54 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Alex,
I tracked a 997.1 C4S for a year before 'retiring' the car from the track. Here's my two cents: if you are tracking on street tires and the car is your DD, don't change anything. Go to the track and have fun or else you will go down the slippery slope to ruining the car. I went all the way from street tires to race slicks. In a AWD car you can't get much camber in the front without changing the top hats. I ended with a suspension system of a race car. Lost of fun but not the friendliest DD.
Also, if you are doing to your car, go to Porsche race shop and get it done properly.
I tracked a 997.1 C4S for a year before 'retiring' the car from the track. Here's my two cents: if you are tracking on street tires and the car is your DD, don't change anything. Go to the track and have fun or else you will go down the slippery slope to ruining the car. I went all the way from street tires to race slicks. In a AWD car you can't get much camber in the front without changing the top hats. I ended with a suspension system of a race car. Lost of fun but not the friendliest DD.
Also, if you are doing to your car, go to Porsche race shop and get it done properly.
I think if I installed the GT3 LCA, can get to -2 for sure, but then again, is it worth it?
Maybe I just try to get as much negative up-front on stock LCA and just keep the rest stock? Decisions, decisions...
04-11-2013, 05:41 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
install the gt3 lca
-2 camber front with zero toe
-1.5 camber rear with 2mm per side toe in
- because the rear of the car is where the weight is, it is the rear comber that really kills the inner edges
- adding more front camber is a bit of a free ride since there isn't nearly as much weight that kills the tires
- getting more camber in the front than the rear is what you need to make the car work on the track
The standard typical gt3 and RS setups for tires choices in the 245/255 & 305/315/325/335 rear are
Almost Pure Track
- 2.6 front, 1/8 total toe out
- 2.3 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Hybrib
- 2.3 front, zero toe
-1.7 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Hope that helps
-2 camber front with zero toe
-1.5 camber rear with 2mm per side toe in
- because the rear of the car is where the weight is, it is the rear comber that really kills the inner edges
- adding more front camber is a bit of a free ride since there isn't nearly as much weight that kills the tires
- getting more camber in the front than the rear is what you need to make the car work on the track
The standard typical gt3 and RS setups for tires choices in the 245/255 & 305/315/325/335 rear are
Almost Pure Track
- 2.6 front, 1/8 total toe out
- 2.3 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Hybrib
- 2.3 front, zero toe
-1.7 rear, 2mm per side toe in
Hope that helps
Im only using 19in MPSS as training tires as I only had the car for 6 events. Im using more tires though =) Soon to go to 18inch setup with nt01
04-11-2013, 06:46 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Be careful in putting -2 on the front without changing the top hats because its AWD. Increase in camber pulls on the front drive shafts.
We put custom machined Eibach camber plates at the top to do that, ie to get -2 camber. I would leave ur car alone. Just run MPSS on the track. Great street and DE tire. Laptimes are with in a 1s of MPSCs in a short track. Or buy a older Porsche race car.
We put custom machined Eibach camber plates at the top to do that, ie to get -2 camber. I would leave ur car alone. Just run MPSS on the track. Great street and DE tire. Laptimes are with in a 1s of MPSCs in a short track. Or buy a older Porsche race car.
