New Rules
03-31-2013 | 12:50 PM
#16
The Penguin King
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I remember reading a post a while ago where some organization was talking about requiring seats and harnesses etc based on the degree of modification that had been done to a car. I don't think it was PCA, and to my knowledge nothing like this has been passed down to the regions from national.
It's a ludicrous idea in my opinion, as it would require that you to use harnesses in a modified 944 or Miata, but you can use three-points in a GT2RS. Sounds like something only a lawyer working for an insurance company could possibly cook up.
It's a ludicrous idea in my opinion, as it would require that you to use harnesses in a modified 944 or Miata, but you can use three-points in a GT2RS. Sounds like something only a lawyer working for an insurance company could possibly cook up.
03-31-2013 | 01:54 PM
#17
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No rules that I am aware of.
My concern is that you seem to be going in the direction of putting a full roll cage into a car that will be driven on the street. A roll cage has a bar that runs along the roof line from behind the seat and towards the A-pillar. In an accident your head will very likely hit that pillar, and without a helmet on, very bad things will happen.
A cage is designed to protect you under the assumption that you are wearing helmet. Without one it will do more harm then good. Stick with a roll bar on any car that will be driven on the street. There are bolt-in in products that allow for this bar to be removed, so that could be another option for you. But do not put in a full cage (with non-removable bar) until you are ready to take the car off the street. 2014 is a long ways off, lots of other things to throw your time & money at until then.
My concern is that you seem to be going in the direction of putting a full roll cage into a car that will be driven on the street. A roll cage has a bar that runs along the roof line from behind the seat and towards the A-pillar. In an accident your head will very likely hit that pillar, and without a helmet on, very bad things will happen.
A cage is designed to protect you under the assumption that you are wearing helmet. Without one it will do more harm then good. Stick with a roll bar on any car that will be driven on the street. There are bolt-in in products that allow for this bar to be removed, so that could be another option for you. But do not put in a full cage (with non-removable bar) until you are ready to take the car off the street. 2014 is a long ways off, lots of other things to throw your time & money at until then.
03-31-2013 | 02:37 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
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A local PCA region has proposed that for 2014, any car having R comp tires will be required to have seats and harnesses. There is a lot of opposition to this proposal and the idea came from the region, not national. I don't know of any such proposal on the national basis.
03-31-2013 | 03:21 PM
#19
The Penguin King
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A local PCA region has proposed that for 2014, any car having R comp tires will be required to have seats and harnesses. There is a lot of opposition to this proposal and the idea came from the region, not national. I don't know of any such proposal on the national basis.
03-31-2013 | 03:30 PM
#20
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Not a good thing. Not well thought out. Unintended consequences abound...
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03-31-2013 | 04:00 PM
#21
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From: 01776
Karen,
This all would've been much simpler if you had simply decided to drive your modern Carrera on the track. It is a car that is ready to go out of the box for a novice (aside from brake fluid).
Why not rethink this decision? It's not too late!
Then, if you really get hooked driving your modern machine at the track, you can move on to a dedicated track car. This is a progression that MANY of us went through.
Just my two cents.
This all would've been much simpler if you had simply decided to drive your modern Carrera on the track. It is a car that is ready to go out of the box for a novice (aside from brake fluid).
Why not rethink this decision? It's not too late!
Then, if you really get hooked driving your modern machine at the track, you can move on to a dedicated track car. This is a progression that MANY of us went through.
Just my two cents.
03-31-2013 | 04:20 PM
#23
uninformed gas bag
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From: Melbourne Beach
Might be a region thing. I found this when I was looking at running with Chicago PCA at Blackhawk Farms
PCA Chicago Region has adopted the following rules pertaining to harness belts, race seats and rollover protection for participants in all Chicago Region drivers education events (DE) effective January 1, 2008.
Yellow, Green and Novice groups may run with stock seats and belts
White group requires a 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat*, rollover protection highly recommended.
Black group requires a 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat* and must be equipped at a minimum with a roll bar**.
* The race seat is required to have proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti- submarine straps. Single piece race seats recommended. Race seats that have reclining articulation are approved for DE only.
**A bolt in or welded in roll bar is recommended. Roll bars must meet Club Racing Specifications and must be covered with closed cell foam padding in any place where a helmet could come in contact with the bar.
The above safety rule change was developed in response to PCA National’s harness recommendations approved in 2007 as follows:
Harness Systems: If the participant chooses to install a 5 or 6 point driving harness (four point systems are not safe and therefore not allowed) several changes to the automobile must be made to create a safe occupant restraint system. Harnesses must include an antisubmarine strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent with the manufacturer’s instructions. The Harness system must be used in conjunction with a seat which has the supplied routing holes for the shoulder and anti-submarine belts. All pieces of the restraint system must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.
This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti-submarine straps. The shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from horizontal. Because the addition of the harness system means that the occupants are fastened upright in the vehicle, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage is strongly encouraged to complete the SYSTEM. The use of one without the other may result in an unsafe environment and is not a COMPLETE SYSTEM.
The changes we have adopted allow the driver to make the choice whether to install a harness or not. If participating in DE as a novice, green or yellow group driver at any of our Chicago events, stock lap belts are acceptable. If your proficiency allows, and you wish to progress to the faster White or Black group a harness and race seat is required.
Rollover protection is highly recommended for White group and required for the Black group. National’s DE safety standards also require equal restraints for student and instructor.
Equal Restraints: Both student and instructor shall have the same restraint system. All vehicles must be equipped with a properly installed lap and shoulder restraint system.
If you wish to have an instructor ride with you, or instruct a student in your car, both shall have the same restraint system. If you have installed a harness and race seat in the driver’s position but the stock seat and lap belt remain in the passenger side, the driver would have to use the stock lap belt (instead of the harness) and run in the Green or Yellow group when instructing or being instructed.
Seems the upper run groups require more safety equip than most regions.
Peter
PCA Chicago Region has adopted the following rules pertaining to harness belts, race seats and rollover protection for participants in all Chicago Region drivers education events (DE) effective January 1, 2008.
Yellow, Green and Novice groups may run with stock seats and belts
White group requires a 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat*, rollover protection highly recommended.
Black group requires a 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat* and must be equipped at a minimum with a roll bar**.
* The race seat is required to have proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti- submarine straps. Single piece race seats recommended. Race seats that have reclining articulation are approved for DE only.
**A bolt in or welded in roll bar is recommended. Roll bars must meet Club Racing Specifications and must be covered with closed cell foam padding in any place where a helmet could come in contact with the bar.
The above safety rule change was developed in response to PCA National’s harness recommendations approved in 2007 as follows:
Harness Systems: If the participant chooses to install a 5 or 6 point driving harness (four point systems are not safe and therefore not allowed) several changes to the automobile must be made to create a safe occupant restraint system. Harnesses must include an antisubmarine strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent with the manufacturer’s instructions. The Harness system must be used in conjunction with a seat which has the supplied routing holes for the shoulder and anti-submarine belts. All pieces of the restraint system must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.
This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti-submarine straps. The shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from horizontal. Because the addition of the harness system means that the occupants are fastened upright in the vehicle, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage is strongly encouraged to complete the SYSTEM. The use of one without the other may result in an unsafe environment and is not a COMPLETE SYSTEM.
The changes we have adopted allow the driver to make the choice whether to install a harness or not. If participating in DE as a novice, green or yellow group driver at any of our Chicago events, stock lap belts are acceptable. If your proficiency allows, and you wish to progress to the faster White or Black group a harness and race seat is required.
Rollover protection is highly recommended for White group and required for the Black group. National’s DE safety standards also require equal restraints for student and instructor.
Equal Restraints: Both student and instructor shall have the same restraint system. All vehicles must be equipped with a properly installed lap and shoulder restraint system.
If you wish to have an instructor ride with you, or instruct a student in your car, both shall have the same restraint system. If you have installed a harness and race seat in the driver’s position but the stock seat and lap belt remain in the passenger side, the driver would have to use the stock lap belt (instead of the harness) and run in the Green or Yellow group when instructing or being instructed.
Seems the upper run groups require more safety equip than most regions.
Peter
03-31-2013 | 04:31 PM
#24
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
A local PCA region has proposed that for 2014, any car having R comp tires will be required to have seats and harnesses. There is a lot of opposition to this proposal and the idea came from the region, not national. I don't know of any such proposal on the national basis.
As mglobe said, a torque-monster 912 on Toyo RA1's must run with seats & harnesses, but a hopped-up 900hp GT2 or Viper on OEM tires can run 3 point belts.
Genius!
03-31-2013 | 04:44 PM
#25
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From: The right side of Leftville
Not to get political, but...........
04-01-2013 | 09:21 AM
#28
Mr. Excitement
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Potomac has had a rule on the books for many years regarding peformance mods and safety. For the most part if the car would need to be classed GT-XX in CR you were to add seats, belts and bar. The idea is if you are going to pour in go fast $ you should also add in some safety $. I never ever saw the rule used in a draconian or fine line way. It was a way to coax the long time DE folks into adding some safety. Never a "Go home your car is unsafe you dumbass" more of a "Please add in some safety next time as we like you and you nice car. Here is what is recomended and why"
The newer cars are much faster but they are also far safer. Belt tensioner and airbag systems, improved crumple zones around stronger driver compartment car bodies that are far better at taking a hit than even the cars from the 80's much less a longhood. I'll take a right seat ride into a tire wall in a HP modded modern 911 over an early Miata with a roll bar anyday.
The newer cars are much faster but they are also far safer. Belt tensioner and airbag systems, improved crumple zones around stronger driver compartment car bodies that are far better at taking a hit than even the cars from the 80's much less a longhood. I'll take a right seat ride into a tire wall in a HP modded modern 911 over an early Miata with a roll bar anyday.
