track noob question: why do harnesses expire?
03-18-2013, 07:27 PM
#46
Perfect Angel
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Heck, I've been one of those volunteers. On the one occassion when I noted an obvious safety issue (which affected other cars on-track), it happened to be on a 'big whig's' car and he basically laughed and went on his way.
For my own part, I was initially told that I had to attend the clinic before any DE's because track time with other organizations or regions, regardless of run group, solo status, etc., "didn't count." It's a strange sort of arrogrance - mixed with selective enforcement. You're either in the club or you're not, I guess.
My experience was put to bed by a past president - for whom I have the utmost respect and who is definately the exception to the rule - by stepping in on the clinic issue.
But to tell a driver he can't go out during a DE with harness/HANS equipment which was expired for a month in favor of 17-year old, factory seatbelts? Come on. That red car is a known quantity, as is the driver. Tracked 993's arent all that common, here. Most people bring the latest and greatest GT/RS toy and scrub around on Hoosiers with nary an eye on their rear view mirror.
The difference between Potomac and my previous region is night and day. The former seems to promote an aura of exclusivity while the latter was accomodating, welcoming and helpful in every way.
Specific to the portion you boldfaced, the other organizations which run locally are filled with PCA-certified instructors and even ex-professional drivers who will openly bash the region as soon as they see the car, if it's for the first time.
For my own part, I was initially told that I had to attend the clinic before any DE's because track time with other organizations or regions, regardless of run group, solo status, etc., "didn't count." It's a strange sort of arrogrance - mixed with selective enforcement. You're either in the club or you're not, I guess.
My experience was put to bed by a past president - for whom I have the utmost respect and who is definately the exception to the rule - by stepping in on the clinic issue.
But to tell a driver he can't go out during a DE with harness/HANS equipment which was expired for a month in favor of 17-year old, factory seatbelts? Come on. That red car is a known quantity, as is the driver. Tracked 993's arent all that common, here. Most people bring the latest and greatest GT/RS toy and scrub around on Hoosiers with nary an eye on their rear view mirror.
The difference between Potomac and my previous region is night and day. The former seems to promote an aura of exclusivity while the latter was accomodating, welcoming and helpful in every way.
Specific to the portion you boldfaced, the other organizations which run locally are filled with PCA-certified instructors and even ex-professional drivers who will openly bash the region as soon as they see the car, if it's for the first time.
Last edited by Streak; 03-18-2013 at 07:56 PM.
03-19-2013, 09:06 AM
#47
Mr. Excitement
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Heck, I've been one of those volunteers. On the one occassion when I noted an obvious safety issue (which affected other cars on-track), it happened to be on a 'big whig's' car and he basically laughed and went on his way.
For my own part, I was initially told that I had to attend the clinic before any DE's because track time with other organizations or regions, regardless of run group, solo status, etc., "didn't count." It's a strange sort of arrogrance - mixed with selective enforcement. You're either in the club or you're not, I guess.My experience was put to bed by a past president - for whom I have the utmost respect and who is definately the exception to the rule - by stepping in on the clinic issue.
....
For my own part, I was initially told that I had to attend the clinic before any DE's because track time with other organizations or regions, regardless of run group, solo status, etc., "didn't count." It's a strange sort of arrogrance - mixed with selective enforcement. You're either in the club or you're not, I guess.My experience was put to bed by a past president - for whom I have the utmost respect and who is definately the exception to the rule - by stepping in on the clinic issue.
....
You might have been told something by someone but the printed rules say otherwise and other stated track experence counts. No need for a past prez to step in. I have never seen or heard of someone with prior track exp being required to do an HPDC.
03-19-2013, 09:32 AM
#48
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As a few others have stated... while it's a stupid rule, it's a rule... and I'm sure it's required by the club's insurance to enforce it or face the risk of a lawsuit.
I'll also add that the board of directors for your region are held PERSONALLY LIABLE for the events. So you screw up, die, and someone finds out your belts were expired by a month. Someone (your wife, parents, siblings, whoever) decides to sue the club because you were let out on the track with expired belts, which is against the written rules. The club is found negligent. Who pays? Well once the region's coffers are empty... it's the board of directors of the region who have to cough up the cash.
Remember that the next time you take issues with silly rules. As silly as they may be... they're protecting someone's butt. Might even be the guy at the event standing next to you.
I'll also add that the board of directors for your region are held PERSONALLY LIABLE for the events. So you screw up, die, and someone finds out your belts were expired by a month. Someone (your wife, parents, siblings, whoever) decides to sue the club because you were let out on the track with expired belts, which is against the written rules. The club is found negligent. Who pays? Well once the region's coffers are empty... it's the board of directors of the region who have to cough up the cash.
Remember that the next time you take issues with silly rules. As silly as they may be... they're protecting someone's butt. Might even be the guy at the event standing next to you.
03-19-2013, 10:04 AM
#49
I'm in....
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Maybe things have changed but I did my first PCA DE with Potomac back in 2000 and had an excellent experience. I have run with them almost every year since and instructed for them a number of times. I have nothing but good things to say about their program.
03-19-2013, 04:55 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
First, we're discussing related, but separate points. Arbitrarily intertwining them as one and the same or selectively highlighting portions of posts which suit your aim is poor form.
Are they related? Yes; I believe one is a symptom of the other, which is why I cited selective enforcement of safety rules as an example of my opinion.
Subsequently, please don't drag Paddy into your quarrel with me. He has not voiced an opinion on the region; only the safety issues presented by the use of 17-year old seat belts in lieu of recently expired, proper equipment.
Finally, you are more than welcome to disagree with my opinion.
You have. Several times over.
The horse is dead from blunt trauma.
Are we done or should I expect a continuation of the same message written another six different ways?
03-19-2013, 05:56 PM
#51
Perfect Angel
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Interesting that several others (a few Potomac members no less and one whose entire family has been involved as volunteers for years) have also disagreed with your view of the Potomac chapter yet you focus on me.
You dragged Paddy into this by using his post to support your argument that the entire Potomac chapter is run by elitist ******. I'm not selectively doing anything, I'm highlighting your own words. Those will haunt you won't they?
I'll point out again that rather than send Paddy home they found a way for him to run the event without incurring any liability by ignoring a rule. Those ******!
Again, I don't speak for Potomac but if you don't like Potomac then go somewhere else rather than insult a group of dedicated, hard working volunteers who put their time and their talent to work so you can have a nice track weekend.
I'm done now
You dragged Paddy into this by using his post to support your argument that the entire Potomac chapter is run by elitist ******. I'm not selectively doing anything, I'm highlighting your own words. Those will haunt you won't they?
I'll point out again that rather than send Paddy home they found a way for him to run the event without incurring any liability by ignoring a rule. Those ******!
Again, I don't speak for Potomac but if you don't like Potomac then go somewhere else rather than insult a group of dedicated, hard working volunteers who put their time and their talent to work so you can have a nice track weekend.
I'm done now
03-19-2013, 09:57 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
To answer the OP's ?:
...So there is always something around to tow your car with...
The expired belts that pose a safety concern can tow a 3K+ car about without a problem, but lets replace them on set schedule that has nothing to do with reality just becuase.......
...So there is always something around to tow your car with...
The expired belts that pose a safety concern can tow a 3K+ car about without a problem, but lets replace them on set schedule that has nothing to do with reality just becuase.......
03-21-2013, 03:44 PM
#53
That is not really true. PCA's policy covers officers as well as the region. Not to say you won't be personally sued, but there is coverage. Also, many of the rules are not necissarily in the insurance policy, but adopted becuase of risk management. Any who is a PCA member can look at the region procedures manual, DE guidelines, and more on the pca.org website and get a good idea of what is going on and required.
Sometimes I wonder about our sanity considering the many many hours of effort we put in.Again - I agree it's kind of a silly rule. I've made the same argument myself in the past (why are my 27 year old 3pt belts ok, but 1-year-expired 6pt harnesses not?) and was told the two driving factors were (a) insurance and (b) "Why not? Better safe than sorry, they expire belts for a reason."
Good enough for me. You can get FIA rated 6pt camlock belts from G-Force for under $200/set. You don't NEED the $600 set of Schroth or Sparco belts if cost is a concern.
Last edited by User 52121; 03-21-2013 at 04:04 PM.
