DreamCarrera

Interested to hear what you guys think about the potential future use of PDK in 911,Boxster, and Cayman club/spec racing. Will the PDK be allowed? Will it be given a weight penalty when compared to a MT equipped car(think the 3.6L engine in spec 996 racing)?

And most important of all; will the PDK be able to withstand the abuse of racing?

Thundermoose

Someone at the track told me that PDK is being used by some racers and that the PDK and Porsche software is so good that they are not even putting the paddles on the steering wheels since no driver is as good at managing the RPMs as the computer. I don' have any validation of this person's comments, but it is an interesting concept, true or not. Of course, I am not answering your question, but thought I would share this story.

gums

Like all performance advancements; it's coming. Just a matter of time until it trickles down.
Personally, I look forward to a paddle race car.

BGB Motorsports

Folks,

The PDK trans is already in PCA and SCCA legally. This past September I got classified a Cayman in Touring that can also run at 2900 lbs with a PDK trans and "ANY Porsche Engine." So technically our Rolex Cayman that we ran the 24 is now legal in STO and could run a PDK if desired. Speed Merchants ran a PDK 997.2 all through 2010 in PCA Club Racing and I worked directly with that driver J-F Dumoulin and that's why I had him run our PDK Cayman at NJMP.

In 2011, when BGB set out to crack the nut on PDK because we refused to accept things like "limp mode" we created a PDK Cayman that flawlessly ran 6 outtings in the heat of the hot Southeast U.S. (Sebring, PBIR and Daytona in the summer) and when wanted real proof, we took it to NJMP last year for the ITC race.

I will admit the fact that I grossly grossly underestimated the demand for a track functioning PDK setup. When I coach people with the PDK I tell them "hands off the wheel." I actually intentionally don't mount the paddle shifters because unlike an F430 or a 458 Ferrari, this isn't a true race sequential and therefore the software doesn't want you interrupting, shifting up or down. The PDK ECU is designed to outhink the driver, look at brake/throttle pressure and talk to the lat-g sensor in the middle of the corner so it doesn't upshift. I tell people "if you don't like being spoken to while you're driving then don't talk to the PDK either - you do your thing and let him do his."

While some class A types don't like the reduced interaction, it's the recipe for a successful PDK build. We are on our 6th car without issue. I have beaten these cars down in the heat of Florida and they keep coming. We are thinking about building a PDK version of the Rolex car to add some race proven performance to the PDK.

Right now, via Guard Transmission, we offer the only PDK motorsport limited slip differential for 987.2, 997.2 and 991 Porsches. The PDK LSD for 987.2 and 997.2 cars with factory open diffs is a couple of months behind but it's coming also.

Thanks.

John

ProCoach

I do have to say that after observing the phenomenally efficient operation of the PDK on track, this IS the way of the future.

Like it or not, it's better and quicker at making the optimal decision than the driver and most importantly, one less thing to think about and reduces GREATLY the possibility of driver error.

Either not selecting the most optimal gear or just fumbling the gear change, the PDK streamlines and assists the driver in going faster with less effort. It's cool.

BGB Motorsports

Peter makes the big data point. There are plenty of track drivers out there that have decent race craft and line perception but they get totally flustered when approaching a brake zone because it's time to try and hold the brakes while going, clutch in, 6-5 manual downshift, blip, clutch out, clutch in, 5-4 manual downshift, blip, clutch out, clutch in, 4-3 manual downshift, blip, clutch out, clutch in, 3-2 manual downshift, blip, clutch out, all while trying to find a turn-in point with more advanced drivers whizzing by them.

I'm not even going to begin to approach what it saves you in upshifting around a track with 15 corners. But that's a bit off topic as I think this is a legality, reliability and overall benefit of PDK for learning thread.

Over!

f1rocks

John,
What are your estimates for maintenance over several seasons? Rebuilds, etc.... based on 6-8 club races per year.

jumper5836

So, your saying it is faster and easier on the system if the driver is locked out of making any of the shift decisions? or is it to protect the system from getting abused and going into limp mode?

BGB Motorsports

Unfortunately the only answer even I will believe in is one that I will have to answer for you later in the year as we put more time on the box. BUT...I would assume that IF and ONLY IF you exhaust all of the cooling measures known to you that anyone should run on anything with a PDK trans, and if you flush the gearbox fluid every 3rd event and maybe the wet clutch system fluid also every 3rd event, since you're not beating up on the syncros, reliability shouldn't be an issue. The wet clutch is obviously getting hot and should be flushed but it's a very very fussy thing and if you're doing it at home, you should first be careful because fluid amounts, temps, etc are analyzed by the car's ECU when you fire it up. It's fussy to say the least.

I think the single biggest weak point of that whole trans is probably trying to put 600lb/ft of torque to the clutches. At that point, clutches will probably soften, whatever. BUT, since Caymans with 3.4s and even 3.8s only produce 300lb/ft, the PDK trans is up to the task. We need to get Matt from Guard Transmission to chime in and tell us what the internal wear and tear is like on the stack on something like that.

BGB Motorsports

Well you're not locked out because you can always put the shifter on the console over into +/- mode but a typical trans ECU thought process is to look at how quickly you went from gas to brake in the brake zone AND how much brake pressure you have on the pedal so that it knows how quickly to downshift, how big of a blip to make AND whether or not it should go down that one last downshift before turn in. If you release the brake early, it won't do the last downshift.

Manually inducing gear changes when it's not expecting it I think will build heat and confusion. It won't limp home but the odds of it trying to pop back into its desired gear vs. yours increase with manual interaction.

I know it's weird but it's like any man or woman that's aggressive. She doesn't want you telling her anything!

John H

Having a PDK tranny is cheating

(that was my impression after riding with a friend/fellow racer at a DE in a PDK equipped Cayman). It will be interesting to see the use grow and get some data on wear rates and durability.

MarkM

It's interesting that a PDK car is in the same PCA class as the base car. It may not be cheating, but looks like it could be a big advantage to PDK cars.

I wonder if performance data will show it should be bumped you up a class?

ProCoach

I can't comment on the "ease on the system" question.

As a driver coach and experienced observer, I heard a PDK car go down a gear when the driver went to power through and out of T17. This tells me that often, people forget to (or don't) go down to the BEST gear for the corner and instead select what they think (and more importantly what their coaches or friends SAY) they should select.

The PDK has no judgement, it just selects the optimal gear, as John said, for all the conditions recorded.

I heard the FAST upshifts and I'm impressed with the technology.

gums

It's called progress, and you're probably better off not fighting it.

BGB Motorsports

Well now you can imagine how I felt when Grand-Am said that we could NOT put a sequential in while the Mazdas, GT3 Cups, Audis, etc. all run them.

We were the only h-pattern in the field at the 24. If it's cheating, sign me up! I agree though in that it's not an apples to apples comparison.