PDK's Future In Club/Spec Racing???
02-20-2013, 08:43 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
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Wasn't thinking of new classes, just bumping them up one stock class if the data shows an advantage.
There aren't any cars in my class with PDK, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut.
There aren't any cars in my class with PDK, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut.
02-20-2013, 09:09 AM
#47
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Of the classes where I have gotten the PDK made legal, it has come with a weight penalty every time. 50 lbs for some and 100lbs for others.
02-20-2013, 09:14 AM
#48
Burning Brakes
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John, I think we were talking PCA classes, not all the places you guys run.
At my low amateur level I think PDK is a much bigger advantage than 50 or 100 lbs penalty. I think we miss a lot more shifts than the pros do.
But I am fine waiting for some stats to see what we should do, if anything.
At my low amateur level I think PDK is a much bigger advantage than 50 or 100 lbs penalty. I think we miss a lot more shifts than the pros do.
But I am fine waiting for some stats to see what we should do, if anything.
02-20-2013, 10:19 AM
#49
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John, I think we were talking PCA classes, not all the places you guys run.
At my low amateur level I think PDK is a much bigger advantage than 50 or 100 lbs penalty. I think we miss a lot more shifts than the pros do.
But I am fine waiting for some stats to see what we should do, if anything.
At my low amateur level I think PDK is a much bigger advantage than 50 or 100 lbs penalty. I think we miss a lot more shifts than the pros do.
But I am fine waiting for some stats to see what we should do, if anything.
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02-20-2013, 10:42 AM
#50
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Peter, agreed.
If you put a driver in a Cayman S with PDK and the same driver in a non-PDK car would he/she turn the same lap times at VIR, or would PDK be faster? And if so, is the advantage large enough to warrant a class change?
If you put a driver in a Cayman S with PDK and the same driver in a non-PDK car would he/she turn the same lap times at VIR, or would PDK be faster? And if so, is the advantage large enough to warrant a class change?
02-20-2013, 11:23 AM
#52
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PDK carries an inherent weight penalty compared to an identical car with a manual. Maybe that's enough?
02-22-2013, 05:49 AM
#54
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Well, I think this debate is pretty much over considering that P is going the modern route and eliminating the MT in its new GT3. If the new GT3, the company's consumer track based car, is going all PDK surely the rest of the company's car line-up will follow. Therefore, of course all future club/spec racing will revert to PDK because the factory will have eliminated the MT. THERE WILL BE NO CHOICE!!!(a la Ferrari and Lambo...)
IMHO, its a damn shame. Yes the PDKs(and the other manufacturer's equivalents) are faster and more advanced than the old style MT BUT switching to them takes some driver's skill out of the equation, which to me lessens the "sport" involved in driving a car fast on track.
But what do I know, I'd personally like to see F1 go back to manual boxes...Yes, the speeds would go down but the driver involvement would go up. After all, Isn't that the definition of sport??? I'm sure we could build pitching machines that could throw pitches in MLB more effectively than a major league pitcher but where would be the fun in that???(Sorry C.J., I didn't mean to single you out. LOL)
IMHO, its a damn shame. Yes the PDKs(and the other manufacturer's equivalents) are faster and more advanced than the old style MT BUT switching to them takes some driver's skill out of the equation, which to me lessens the "sport" involved in driving a car fast on track.
But what do I know, I'd personally like to see F1 go back to manual boxes...Yes, the speeds would go down but the driver involvement would go up. After all, Isn't that the definition of sport??? I'm sure we could build pitching machines that could throw pitches in MLB more effectively than a major league pitcher but where would be the fun in that???(Sorry C.J., I didn't mean to single you out. LOL)
02-22-2013, 07:22 AM
#55
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Please do. Be great to get some genuine feedback from someone running some real power through one of these transmissions. Also wonder on purchase and rebuild costs. Are you having yours modified from the stock 997 tt unit? Gearing?
02-22-2013, 09:29 AM
#56
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Hold on a second here...it's not over. Guys, what about a 991 widebody GTS (i don't even know if they will make one but hear me out) with a powerkit and a 7 speed and a pair of sport bucket seats and some control arms for camber and sport chrono plus? Why is this not almost as good for the street/track as whatever GT3 comes out? I have said it over and over again but what's wrong with a 991 with an power kit that has a $3900 replacement cost for its 7-speed manual and $15K replacement cost for its X51/GTS/power it whatever you want to call it motor? purchase the 991 control arms from the GT3 when it comes out and boom, 7-speed GT3 built by Porsche and you with 100% OEM parts.
Well, I think this debate is pretty much over considering that P is going the modern route and eliminating the MT in its new GT3. If the new GT3, the company's consumer track based car, is going all PDK surely the rest of the company's car line-up will follow. Therefore, of course all future club/spec racing will revert to PDK because the factory will have eliminated the MT. THERE WILL BE NO CHOICE!!!(a la Ferrari and Lambo...)
IMHO, its a damn shame. Yes the PDKs(and the other manufacturer's equivalents) are faster and more advanced than the old style MT BUT switching to them takes some driver's skill out of the equation, which to me lessens the "sport" involved in driving a car fast on track.
But what do I know, I'd personally like to see F1 go back to manual boxes...Yes, the speeds would go down but the driver involvement would go up. After all, Isn't that the definition of sport??? I'm sure we could build pitching machines that could throw pitches in MLB more effectively than a major league pitcher but where would be the fun in that???(Sorry C.J., I didn't mean to single you out. LOL)
IMHO, its a damn shame. Yes the PDKs(and the other manufacturer's equivalents) are faster and more advanced than the old style MT BUT switching to them takes some driver's skill out of the equation, which to me lessens the "sport" involved in driving a car fast on track.
But what do I know, I'd personally like to see F1 go back to manual boxes...Yes, the speeds would go down but the driver involvement would go up. After all, Isn't that the definition of sport??? I'm sure we could build pitching machines that could throw pitches in MLB more effectively than a major league pitcher but where would be the fun in that???(Sorry C.J., I didn't mean to single you out. LOL)
02-22-2013, 09:32 AM
#57
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John, I think we were talking PCA classes, not all the places you guys run.
At my low amateur level I think PDK is a much bigger advantage than 50 or 100 lbs penalty. I think we miss a lot more shifts than the pros do.
But I am fine waiting for some stats to see what we should do, if anything.
At my low amateur level I think PDK is a much bigger advantage than 50 or 100 lbs penalty. I think we miss a lot more shifts than the pros do.
But I am fine waiting for some stats to see what we should do, if anything.
Check out the GCR. That should give you an indication of what the rulesmakers think the penalties should be. It's all over the board though.
02-22-2013, 10:20 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
Hold on a second here...it's not over. Guys, what about a 991 widebody GTS (i don't even know if they will make one but hear me out) with a powerkit and a 7 speed and a pair of sport bucket seats and some control arms for camber and sport chrono plus? Why is this not almost as good for the street/track as whatever GT3 comes out? I have said it over and over again but what's wrong with a 991 with an power kit that has a $3900 replacement cost for its 7-speed manual and $15K replacement cost for its X51/GTS/power it whatever you want to call it motor? purchase the 991 control arms from the GT3 when it comes out and boom, 7-speed GT3 built by Porsche and you with 100% OEM parts.
02-22-2013, 10:58 AM
#60
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Also, a friend of ours just bought a new Boxster S w PDK. He's planning on doing several DE/Autocross events with the car. Should he have it in "Sport Plus" mode, or simply leave it in "Sport" mode and let the PDK decide the proper gear? Thoughts?