MUSSBERGER

Can't you use the R3 head and neck restraint with stock 3 point belts?

morsini

Someone very wise once told me if you can't afford to buy the best safety equipment money can buy than you can't afford to race/DE. As you get more experienced and faster it becomes even more critical. Spend the money to be safe – your family will thank you for it. They won't watch but they'll feel better.

HalV

I'm not sure if they work with the 3 point belts, but it does look like belts are not required with the R3.

kurt M

Why?

Race typ seats and 6 point belts will give a big jump in safety if you go by the numbers. Look at it this way, you are far more likely to be in a wreck than in a wreck that caves in the B pillar area of the roof of the drivers compartment which is all a roll bar adds to a safety system. Seats and belts without a roll bar do not reduce safety they increase it. When some one tells you "You can't scrunch down when the roof caves in if you are in a race seat like you can in a stock seat" you are free to tell them they do not understand what happens during a wreck. Don't forgo a good seat and belt system if the only reason is you can't add a roll bar but you can use a harness guide bar. Many of the bolt in roll bars are little more than a good place to wrap belts which is OK but no so if you think they will do much in a B pillar crushing event.
A good seat and belt system will hold your torso in place far better than a 3 point system will. The added system will keep you safer at higher Gs and far more impact angles as well as during complex impact events than the stock system will.
Improving holding your torso in place and adding the weight of a helmet brings in the need to keep your head stuck to the rest of you so a head and neck system should be added to the mix.

Frankly if all you are doing is 2 DE's a year IMO the best safety system is simply use your head, listen to your instructor, keep the car in top condition and don't try and be M. Shumacher.

When/ if you get the track bug go full boat on the safety system.

HalV

I understand what you're saying,...however, since most of us can't afford F1 or LMP1 LeMans gear, I doubt most of us are using the best that money can buy. In the end, we all try to do the best with the budget we have. That's why I asked the opening question.

Gary R.

Yes, IIRC they can, and that's why I suggested that as a start. Upgrade to seats/harnesses/harness or roll bar later and use it there also. Remember, he is taking about TWO track days a year and doesn't want to make major changes to the car at this point. Buying a race suit will cost the same and other than looking cool won't save his neck. Chances of a fire are about 100x less than chance of a neck snapping event in a 911 (IMO of course). If he wants to spend it, then ALL the safety equipment should be installed!

chrenan

I thought I made a reasonable suggestion based on car use. If we only got on track with full cages and fire suppression in a trailered car there wouldn't be much of a hobby available for many of us.

HalV

Kurt, thanks for the thoughtful response. I'm just trying to see if there are things that I can do now to increase the safety margin. I'm fine spending a couple K on safety gear but I want to make sure I can take the wife out for dinner in the 964 occasionally, too.

Eventually I'd like to get a fully prepped car, but that's probably at least 5-10 years down the road (two kids headed to college in the next 1-3 years).

911Königin

Are the seats able to go backwards and forwards?

cannon1000

The Simpson R3 can work in a 3 point belt - making it the best option if you don't have bar & harnesses.
http://simpsonraceproducts.com/head-neck/r3.html

Schroth makes a 4 point anti-submarining harness - but you still need a harness bar or roll bar unless your seat qualifies without it, mine don't.

"Harness bars" are generally not allowed without a rollbar by many organizations (like PCA). (in case of rollover you have no where to go).

I can tell you what I did - not saying it is right.
Beginner:
I started with Nomex LS Undershirt from OMP and 1 layer G-Force two piece suit also got gloves (Alpinestars makes great and inexpensive gloves), and Helmet w/Cotton Balaclava (for sweat). Bought Driving Shoes/boots & nomex socks.

Intermediate:
Added Car stuff (tires, suspension, etc)

Started going faster: Got a 3 layer suit and R3.
Started going much faster - "Street" safety gear was starting to scare me, started looking into RollBar, Seats and Harness.

Then I bought a track only car.

MUSSBERGER

If the seat still has sliders (not fixed) but you change the angle of the sub belts depending on where the seat is set.

911Königin

Helmet isn't enough?

JGB

I found the BK Harness guide bar on Pelican. It's much simpler than the DAS roll bar approach but where do you bolt the harness shoulder straps?
There is also the BK Harness Truss which seems to be between the guide bar and the DAS. Has anyone used one these?

I'm like the OP trying to be somewhat safe without overly molesting a street car. If the DE/Race thing really floats my boat I'll sell the 993 and get the full package Track Car/Tow Vehicle/Trailer.

Thanks,

Jim

cannon1000

5-10 years? Ha ha - until the bug bites then the kids are on their own!

I think if you set aside a few $K I would protect yourself first:
Helmet (good one)
R3
Gloves (Better grip on the wheel)
Driving shoes and socks
1 layer suit w/nomex underwear or a 3 piece NOMEX suit.

If you get to a point where you are driving solo - you should start thinking about the car.
Rollbar, Harness and seats (hand held extinguisher)

Gary R.

Karen - he is asking what steps, beyond his helmet and stock car, he should take. The helmet protects your head from an impact, but it actually adds (with weight) to the possibility of neck/spine damage. A HANS/R3/Isaac device is there to limit the travel of your head, especially when you are strapped into harnesses (you need harnesses for the HANS type device) and your body is being held in place very securely. If spending money I always look 1st to safety devices and in his case an R3 (works with normal 3 point belts now, and with harnesses later) would be money much better spent than on a pretty race suit. Do you need anything more than a helmet, jeans (tight ones are better), and a (tight) long sleeve cotton shirt to run DE's?
Nope.