In-Car from Spec Box Roll Over at WSIR...
12-08-2012, 11:49 AM
#31
One question we have tossed about for the Spec Boxsters and this rollover might answer it.
How did the seat rails or seat box hold up? Was there any tearing of the mounting points?
How did the seat rails or seat box hold up? Was there any tearing of the mounting points?
12-08-2012, 12:22 PM
#32
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No tearing of the mounting point or welds, the main hoop failed on the passenger side where it took that first hit. More details later, there will be a full report which will get posted here....
12-11-2012, 02:22 AM
#33
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I totally understand that deformation of the cage dissipates energy
12-12-2012, 12:36 AM
#34
saw the accident first hand from the T1 stands. Ran to the car and drove through the paddock and on the access roads to get to the scene(outside track boundaries) out of sheer fear for the driver. Beat the safety crew, unfortunately. Didn't get a chance to look at the car at the track, but did see video of the incident.
Traveled for 3 hours to inspect the cage yesterday in person. Pretty darn scary and the pictures are ugly. I'll give the courtesy to the OP and builder to post the pictures and "report". Then maybe we can discuss what improvements are to be made.
I thought my cage was fairly stout in my personal car but I'll be adding some tubes and gussets after seeing the results. I can afford some additional weight in hopes that I can survive a similar accident at 150mph versus this projected 65-70mph. Lucky that the driver was unharmed but there is some learning to do.
Traveled for 3 hours to inspect the cage yesterday in person. Pretty darn scary and the pictures are ugly. I'll give the courtesy to the OP and builder to post the pictures and "report". Then maybe we can discuss what improvements are to be made.
I thought my cage was fairly stout in my personal car but I'll be adding some tubes and gussets after seeing the results. I can afford some additional weight in hopes that I can survive a similar accident at 150mph versus this projected 65-70mph. Lucky that the driver was unharmed but there is some learning to do.
12-12-2012, 02:54 AM
#35
What's amazing is how little weight is added to a cage by supplimenting the "minimum required bars" with more bracing. 1.5" .095" wall DOM is only 1.4 pounds per foot and if you step down to .083" wall, the weight goes down to 1.2 pounds per foot. Adding X-bracing to the rear section of a Boxster for example, adds less than 12 pounds to the over all weight of the cage. That might have been all that was needed to keep the main hoop from failing. Add another X-brace to the roof section of the cage for another 8-10 pounds, and it would have kept the a-pillar from failing. I don't know about you, but I would gladly take a 22 pound hit in cage weight if it means added safety... not to mention the side effect of increased chassis stiffness, especially for a convertible.
I've also heard some of my customers say things like "I only want a cheap, basic cage with no extra bracing". That's an easy thing to say if you've never been involved in a serious on-track incident, but I'm sure most people would be willing to fork over the extra couple hundred bucks if they actually thought they might some day need the added safety of an "over-built" cage. The fact is, most people still think "it could never happen to me".
In the past, I've been accused of building "over-built" cages in Boxsters. I've never believed that to be true.
I've also heard some of my customers say things like "I only want a cheap, basic cage with no extra bracing". That's an easy thing to say if you've never been involved in a serious on-track incident, but I'm sure most people would be willing to fork over the extra couple hundred bucks if they actually thought they might some day need the added safety of an "over-built" cage. The fact is, most people still think "it could never happen to me".
In the past, I've been accused of building "over-built" cages in Boxsters. I've never believed that to be true.
12-12-2012, 10:47 AM
#36
Ran to the car and drove through the paddock and on the access roads to get to the scene(outside track boundaries) out of sheer fear for the driver. Beat the safety crew, unfortunately.
Traveled for 3 hours to inspect the cage yesterday in person. Pretty darn scary and the pictures are ugly. I'll give the courtesy to the OP and builder to post the pictures and "report". do.
Traveled for 3 hours to inspect the cage yesterday in person. Pretty darn scary and the pictures are ugly. I'll give the courtesy to the OP and builder to post the pictures and "report". do.
Not to bash the op and his builder just trying to learn more. Can you give impressions of the cage failure and why? One poster said the cage main hoop broke. Was the cage a chromo cage vs 1120 DOM? If the OP does not post, maybe we can gleen some benefits by seeing pics of your cage and where you are thinking of making changes?
If someone add support bars that are optional how do sanctioning bodies look at the requirements of those extra tubes vs. the critical 6-8 point cage tubes of specific minimum diameter and thickness? Are those extra tubes treated more like gussets so that you could weld in 1.5" x 0.83 when the cage main structure requires say 1.75 x 0.95?
I'm not familiar with Spec box rules. On a sidenote since the boxster has a bolt on plastic roof instead of a tin top, how do you guys feel about arm restraints? I can see the roof ripping off in a crash like this and the "arms a flailing."
12-12-2012, 11:14 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
More comments later on "medical" assessment for track incidents, this one included.
12-12-2012, 11:27 AM
#39
WSIR safety crew has been, in my experience, uninspiring and I question their compentance.
Not to bash the op and his builder just trying to learn more. Can you give impressions of the cage failure and why? One poster said the cage main hoop broke. Was the cage a chromo cage vs 1120 DOM? If the OP does not post, maybe we can gleen some benefits by seeing pics of your cage and where you are thinking of making changes?
If someone add support bars that are optional how do sanctioning bodies look at the requirements of those extra tubes vs. the critical 6-8 point cage tubes of specific minimum diameter and thickness? Are those extra tubes treated more like gussets so that you could weld in 1.5" x 0.83 when the cage main structure requires say 1.75 x 0.95?
I'm not familiar with Spec box rules. On a sidenote since the boxster has a bolt on plastic roof instead of a tin top, how do you guys feel about arm restraints? I can see the roof ripping off in a crash like this and the "arms a flailing."
Not to bash the op and his builder just trying to learn more. Can you give impressions of the cage failure and why? One poster said the cage main hoop broke. Was the cage a chromo cage vs 1120 DOM? If the OP does not post, maybe we can gleen some benefits by seeing pics of your cage and where you are thinking of making changes?
If someone add support bars that are optional how do sanctioning bodies look at the requirements of those extra tubes vs. the critical 6-8 point cage tubes of specific minimum diameter and thickness? Are those extra tubes treated more like gussets so that you could weld in 1.5" x 0.83 when the cage main structure requires say 1.75 x 0.95?
I'm not familiar with Spec box rules. On a sidenote since the boxster has a bolt on plastic roof instead of a tin top, how do you guys feel about arm restraints? I can see the roof ripping off in a crash like this and the "arms a flailing."
My understanding is this cage was built from 1.5" .120 DOM.
This Boxster had a bolt on fiberglass roof. There was one main "roof" impact to the A-pillar on the passenger side of the car. The roof was a little beat up in that front corner but otherwise looked untouched. Luckily, it appears the ground did not come in contact with the roof or fractured tubing above the drivers head. In lieu of arm restraints, this driver has a window net and roof net attached, as do I in my car. I had a bit of scare when my arm restraints were caught around the steering wheel while practicing a quick exit and I never wanted to use them again. I later found a different model/design that was less likely to snag than my first set but have stuck with the full net system.
12-12-2012, 07:13 PM
#40
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12-14-2012, 02:35 PM
#42
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That's right. I was right behind them and shot the video from the other car. Where the car on the left dropped two wheels, there is a little trough created by water runoff. Looked like the driver had to turn hard right to get out of the trough and back on the track. Unfortunatly, when the car jumped out of the trough, it shot across the track and hit the other car.
12-28-2012, 06:41 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
You are probably right. That said, I hope some people with leverage within the POC organization see this through and allow us all to learn on how to be safer. As someone who is looking to buy a spec boxster in the coming year and possibly drive with POC (On the same track even), this certainly hits close to home and I'll be paying close attention to how POC handles this.