fatbillybob

I fell for S21 SA2005 helmet. thing that clips visor down fell off, seal around visor comes unglued, rubbery stuff on chin strap fractures and strap frays and inside helmet fabric stains and frays from poor sewing of seams. I always wear a headsock too. Now have Simpson CF devil ray SA2010 with totally superior finish but questionable manufacture in china? Some are made there and some are not. Will the new S21's stand up to mild use? Keep us posted on durability!

Matt Romanowski

I would suggest calling them. They were very helpful and have all the parts for the helmets, so maybe they can help you out. I specifically asked about chin straps and Franck pulled a bag of them out. Same as all the liners - all removable for replacement or washing. Give them a call and see if they can help.

I tried to have a person from Simpson try and fit a helmet to me. He was not nearly as involved. Told me it should feel tight everywhere.


According to Dr. Melvin, in the mid 90's (?) Nascar drivers were all breaking their sternum and ribs when they crashed, yet no Indy drivers where. They found that just by changing to a 6 point belt it changed how they harness pull and no one has broken a sternum or rib (from the harnesses) since. He also said that six point belts are not quiet as good at keeping you tight in the seat when you turtle, which is important if you don't have a lot of head clearance. he said in those circumstances you should run a 7 point.

Also very interesting - the idea that the crotch strap in a 5 point harness is to keep you from going under the harnesses is wrong. That belt was developed by the Air Force for inverted flight - not crashes.

winders

Exactly how does the crotch strap help in inverted flight?

It's called a "Negative G Strap" because deceleration causes negative G's. It's not related to inverted flight.

Look here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3964158

Specifically:

"Adding the negative G strap to either restraint system had clearly beneficial effects. These included decreasing the tendency toward submarining in forward-facing impacts, providing better occupant-seat coupling during free falls, and improving vertical impact protection."

Scott

Matt Romanowski

Hey Scott - I'm just repeating what he said. He said the 5th point helps to hold your lap belts down and keep you in the seat. I'm not the expert, just repeating what he told us. Here is some background info on Dr. John Melvin:

http://www.racinggoessafer.com/
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/column...rry&id=3199468
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar..._ed&id=6116145

fatbillybob

When I wore the S21 I knew nothing just bought the best of its day. I did not know that stuff was not supposed to fall apart. I'm amazed by my Simpson. And LOL Simpson staff are pretty worthless. I think I now more about their product line than they do.

Dr. Melvin is a great guy so easy to talk to truely interested in making sure we all get educated answering the same questions I'm sure a million times. The funny thing about anti-substraps is that they are more properly called lapbelt retention straps. The substrap holds the laps so that the laps can be in the proper place controling the pelvis and that makes for proper anti-sub effect. To further refine your knowledge look into V, T, formula style and schroth hybrid substaps and you'll find the hybrids the way to go for function and comfort.

fatbillybob

Oh did the S21 guy say anything about glove design and reducing the steam issue? My gloves always are wet by the end of the day. Carbon-x is also supposed to be better for reducing steam burns than nomex by your skin. The lame thing about carbon-x is that it is black. A few minutes in the sun walking around the paddock and you are fying. we need light colored carbon-x.

Matt Romanowski

It was Dr. Trammell that did the glove thing and no, he didn't mention a way to reduce the chance. His big thing was to wear nomex or carbonx underwear, regardless of your suit. I can see if I can email him and ask?

winders

I would imagine that if the lap belts need assistance from the Negative G Strap to be held down in inverted flight, the lap and shoulder bets are not tight enough.

But, what do I know? It just doesn't sound like a plausible reason. The study I quoted sounds much more plausible.

Scott

morsini

Hey Matt,

Thanks for taking the time to pass on this info and engage in the discussion. There's some really helpful info here!

kurt M

Thanks for posting this up! This is good stuff and an area with great room for improvement IMO. I still see many cars from basic to high dollar built that are not taking advantage of the much improved systems we have available to us now.

Are helmets for the most part all well past the "It works to do what is needed" point? This is to say in a high G hard off angle wreck a good fitting but standard grade helmet will protect your head past the point that the rest of you is mush. If you look at the overall numbers it is realistic to conclude that to get the basic grade helmet into a true real world failure mode you likely have gone well past the human body survival point as far as G forces encountered by the rest of the human. Helmet A is tested to "90", helmet B is tested to "120". Lethal for the rest of the human is "60". It is good to use the best, more so if it means less weight and better fit for same protection, if it is within reach but try not to focus hard on numbers in a single safety point when it is only useful as part of a system. A $$$ helmet that “goes to 11” does little when coupled with an inferior restraint system. Restraint is far more than X# of belt points, it is also the seat and all that is around the seat that makes up a driver cocoon. Helmets are fun in a way you get to paint them up if you like and have something for paddock show and tell. Seating systems are not as easy as they involve a lot of things that vary from car to car. Spending $$$ on a new top of the line helmet when you have a good one now rather than the money being spent on improving a basic seating system might have no increase is safety. There is a lot of stuff that is good but much of what was good is now overshadowed by setups that are far better. I think seating systems is an area where there is a lot of room to truly improve driver safety.

Matt Romanowski

All true from what Dr. Melvin said. If you have a proper fitting helmet, you are most of the way in the "helmet department." Then, the seat and restraints are critical. A good demonstration in seats is the new SFI 38.1 and 38.2 seats for aluminum and composites (carbon fiber), respectfully. The seats that meet that spec are substantial and for good reason. The loads that go to a seat are huge!

Also, I forgot to mention right side nets. They are important even with a containment seat. Your head will come out of the containment. Even the simple two strap setups are effective. And the front needs to be mounted in a way that when the center net moves it does not pop out of the release. Dr. Melvin suggested mounting it to another peice of strap.

stownsen914

Very interesting point. I wonder if the F1 guys get specially constructed/fitted helmets from Arai and/or Bell, similar to what it sounds like Stand21 provides to us mortals.

Scott

Plavan

Need a new co driver there pal.... buddy?

Racerrob

Great info in this thread, thanks!

I am not understanding the steam burns from the gloves? They were already burned from the steam and became worse when she gripped the wheel? I have several pair of gloves, maybe I will start rotating them through the weekend.

Dont a bunch of F1 guys where those 50K Schubert helmets?

GuyIncognito

hey Matt! It was nice to meet you at that seminar. Unfortunately my schedule required me to leave before the end

I thought the orthopedist from the Mayo Clinic was really interesting as well. She presented on head injuries in motocross, it was fascinating and terrifying how many people have concussions and don't treat them well, and how frequently they end up in the hospital with other injuries because they lose focus from their previous head injury.

also a lot of helmets (IIRC 75-80%?) were not fitted properly make sure your helmet fits, racers!

and I'll give a big +1 to Jaques Dallaire, he's an exceptional person with a great program for performance psychology.