Astroman

This is from Evan's tech (Behe) over on the Dorkiphus forum:

I spoke with Ray Newman yesterday about this rule change. Other professional service providers had recently contacted him and expressed their same concerns about the current E10 fuel and its' negative effects. The current mandated ethanol content is 10% and is slated to rise to 15% in the near future. The only vehicles which have been calibrated to run safely on E10 or E15 are those that are designated as Flex Fuel.
It is now necessary that any vehicle that is used for competition purposes be allowed to have the engine management system re calibrated for these fuels. It is also important that all vehicles be checked for and allowed to replace any fuel system component that is not compatible with ethanol such as older braided rubber fuel line that is dissolved by ethanol.
The changes in the fuel recipe do represent problems for all vehicles and street driven vehicles will most often only notice the decrease in fuel economy associated with the addition of 10% ethanol however, the race environment is much different and engine damage can occur. It is in the interest of preserving the racers assets that these changes be allowed.

Der ABT

they only made so many chips, water damage, wrecks, things being junked....theres alot of ways to get rid of the chips but no way to make new ones so not sure where that "market" would come from. even then you may have to buy the entire ecu which isnt cheap and then the chip may or may not even work

As for checking timing, A/F etc....how do they check it now??? not sure how a chip would change it
rev limiter easy enough (still not easy enough for those euro's if you ask me though im slighly biased)

Talk to John Behe (Behe Performance) or several other guru's around here im sure youll get the same consesus....its not good.
or just go to your local small motors shop and see how many snow blower/generator etc rebuilds they end up doing before the snow hits.

Gary R.

It's just my opinion but I think it's crazy as all types of things can and will be altered while keeping the stock rev limit, but that just me. Stock means stock, no performance gains using aftermarket chips. The chips can be made to mirror stock chips exactly and I know Steve Wong (or others) would do that and mark them as such, why in the world wasn't that addressed? Sometimes I wonder what is going through the heads of some people. Now if I build a Euro SC, what can I get away with to increase performance to keep up? What about the negative effects of ethanol on my car??

Gary R.

Evan - talk to Steve Wong about the parameters he can change (while keeping the rev limit) and you may be surprised.

From his site - http://www.911chips.com/index2.html

"Welcome to 911Chips - developer of custom performance chips for the Porsche 911 that maximize the performance available from your car. Whether your car is a completely stock daily driver, or a full blown track weapon, chips are available for the Porsche Carrera 3.2 series from 84-89, the Carrera 964 series from 90-94, 95 993, and 96-98 Euro 993s, and are custom configured to each customer's engine modifications, fuel octane, and preferences. Performance improvements quite dramatic, as horsepower and torque are increased throughout the powerband from idle to redline on the order of 6 to 8 percent. Throttle response is also dramatically improved as it changes the stock Porsche's lag to one of an immediate response. All around the world, from Europe, to Asia, Australia, South and North America, owners are raving about the dramatic improvement in their car's character, drivability, and power. Come try one for yourself and experience what your Porsche is truly capable of."

Astroman

This is the way I see the new "free" chip rule:

1) People were cheating. No doubt about it.
2) The current rule was difficult to enforce.
3) There are stock chip availability issues. Evan and Doug have confirmed that.
4) There are emerging fuel/ethanol issues.
5) If there is a performance benefit, most people will benefit equally.
6) The people who will not benefit: Prepared cars (one less available mod for them. Maybe they should be given another?), USA SCs (which affects all of D class equally), and the E class Euro SC (maybe this will silence the critics who argue that the Euro SC, many of which are using advanced timing and race gas, should be moved to F class).

flatsics

The 911 SC is one of the easiest cars to optimize for max hp output.
The timing can be adjusted with the ignition distributor.
The A/F ration can be adjusted by altering the warm up regulator.
If you really want to optimize things individual injector flow can be adjusted at the fuel head.

I guarantee most if not all of the front running SC's have changed the tuning parameters from the stock settings.

How many SC's have the stock rev limit relay still installed--not many.

Gary R.

Doug - both Sean F.'s and my car were checked for ignition and cam timing by Walt F. himself at Thunderbolt and both were within OEM specifications. I'm pretty darn sure that Dan J. (a Nation Scrutineer I believe?) does not touch the CIS fuel system. As for the rev limiter, mine is installed and fully operational. Your argument is that it's ok for a chip performance gain because the D and E SC's are already cheating? That's a sad state of affairs...

Der ABT

Talk to steve Wong (behe and he talk often) and we tried to find a stock chip thru him/locally/italy/germany/heck i tried to steal one out of Jack's car too .
Ask him what performance gains he can add in with still keeping a stock lookign program to the scruits.
basically at sebring we had a LONG discussion wtih all the stewards because of my car....This is the main issue with allowing aftermarket chips with stock programming...too hard to police...heck its not too hard to take off the porsche sticker and put it on the stock chip from the stories ive heard, or someone using a spare DME that was connected to the hazard switch to activate it (caught somehow in the past)
Sealed boxes much like 944cup cars was discussed as well (technically i thought this was the best way) when a stock chip was unavailable (which eventually they will be unavailable to all that dont already have one.
there was alot of talk, much of it over my head, youll hear me say i just drive the thing, i know some stuff but most 2nd graders nowadays know more about it than i do...i just like driving the crap outta the car.

i know the stewards talked long and hard about the best way to do this, loopholes, enforcement, cost to the racer, etc etc etc....heck i didnt realize how much went into a rule change (though this is a farily big one)

not sure why you think the euro's will be at a disadvantage/need to keep up...havent really seen a 3.2 dominate any 3.0 this year.

agree with above, because others are cheating is not a reason to allow the chips...i dont think it came into the discussion at all and not sure what they ahve to do with the chips....if the euro sc gets a huge disadvantage from this, maybe the rules change to equalize the field with weight or somethign else....i know i have been begging for less weight to be able to come close to the euro sc's

Gary R.

Evan - my point is that Steve Wong (and any other chip burner i'm sure) can clone a stock 3.2 chip exactly and permanently mark it as "Stock" if it was desirable to do so. I'm not debating the lack of OEM Porsche chips, just that modifying an aftermarket chip and gaining performance doing it is not within the spirit of stock class rules. I closely watched the last race at Summit between you and Dwayne M. and saw no performance edge in his Euro SC over your car at all... and that's "his" track AFAIK.

Der ABT

man from the drivers seat i have to disagree, im running the 15s he is running the 16s so its also a bit different there, i had a run several time outta 10 and couldnt gain on him, last year when i beat him (sorry had to say it as it was my first time winning a race overall) i could pull on him up from 5-9...this year i wasnt running that great Steve wilson, dwyane and i were nose to tail last year.

this year dwyane got the correct fueling to the car (old cis wasnt working last year and i think blew his motor from being lean)...i think he will tell you down low his car pulls more than it did last year (we were .1 off lap times with him getting the better lap) this year was .5 or more .....
may not have looked like a big difference but from in the car there were a few time right next to him where if i was in 3rd gear we were even, 2nd 4th and especially 5th gear he pulled slightly...not to mention i tach out on the front straight....so at watkins that euro just WALKS me mainly due to the revs and slightly higher hp up top (my tq should help in slow speed but i think it evens out with the weight)

need to add...
alot of it has to do with the driver...a fully stock version of both cars (i think dwayne and i are good candidates) should be a darn good race with each car having a slight advantage at different points....but with the euro weighing so much less it takes away the tq advantage i would have down low making the euro the car to have....still think the euro will be the car to have (again all things legal like i think most cars are).....driver is the biggest cheater mod one can do...my driving ability today vs 3 yrs ago is STUPID.....i couldnt get below a 127/126 at summit...now im 124 flat....NO changes cept sway adjustments.

Der ABT

crap forgot to also add, i think if they did somethign like that where steve or whatever chip maker made a lot of them and made EVERYONE run them then yes, or at least have a batch made and sent to PCA so you dont have the friend of a friend stock chip (not saying it would happen but it could)

at sebring talkign with the stewards, a sealed box like 944cup was talked about (Behe does the 944 cup boxes is where i got the idea from) so im on board with having it that way but its not up to me. not trying to be argumentative (well i guess i am) but being a 3.2 guy most of us complain about the power of the euro 3.0 (hard to tell what impact this will have, even things out, not change much of anything, make the 3.2 need more weight or 3.0 to have less)

FrankyV

Euro SC for sale-Cheap.

Gary R.

Hey, you were driving, I was just watching (unfortunately) so I can only report what I saw from the outside, not facts... have to see both data streams
And you did change those wheels I helped you with!!

Frank - no need for you to sell.... i've been running ethanol in my SC since I bought it.

Gary R.

That's what I am talking about, and even make whatever adjustment is deemed necessary if ethanol is truly a threat to the motor. Rule should be "Chips must be OEM or *blah brand* engraved Porsche Stock" or something like that. You think someone won't have Steve W. or someone else dyno tune every last HP/TQ out of his motor with a custom chip tuned for 100-104 octane, motor longevity be damned?

FrankyV

j/k..but ethanol was deemed a contributing factor when Dwayne broke his motor at VIR. However, this can be prevented by measuring A/F and making sure it doesn't go lean at high RPMs. Seems simple but on the SC you run out of adjustments and have to start changing parts. Dwayne and I both dynoed our cars multiple times with different Euro spec fuel distributors and WURs before we found ones that flowed sufficiently to prevent detonation at high RPMs. As added insurance, I am running race gas, although my timing really is not advanced enough to warrant it.