zhupanov

Folks,

I am a DE beginner (fewer than 10 outings plus some classes so far), and I have been fortunate enough to just get a 996 GT3 with all the safety equipment installed. Coming to it from Mitsubishi Evolution (which practically drives itself) and Cayman (which is also relatively easy for a newbie to control), I am quite intimidated by the GT3's combination of power, grip, and weight balance distribution. Putting this together with the following ideas:

- "if you are not slipping in every corner, you are not going fast enough"
- "the only way to learn car control is to experiment with it at (but just before) the limit"

which seem to be commonly agreed on truisms, it would seem logical that slippery tires/conditions would allow one to experience car limits at much lower (and, thus, safer) speeds. I do realize that one may be as likely to spin out and hit a wall driving narrow all-season tires at the limit of adhesion as one is driving slicks in the dry at the limit of adhesion (though I think the latter are more dangerous for a novice), but hitting that wall at 50 MPH (in the first case) is a lot safer than at a 100 MPH (in the second).

Bottom line is: what do you say to an idea of buying a set of really narrow wheels, a set of really hard and slippery all-season tires (essentially buying tires that get the worst reviews for grip), putting them on a GT3, and heading to the track? Genius, suicide, or a waste of time?

Assuming it's a great idea (for the track), what do you think of doing the same on the street?

ProCoach

Waste of time. You're better off doing some wet skidpad work.

Drive it with OEM tires, then as you gain experience and confidence, go to R compound tires.

Frank 993 C4S

Wate of time. Spend the money on a good coach instead. Start with road tires, move to R compound and then possily Hoosiers in the future.

Nice car - good luck with it!

bobt993

No, stay with the stock wheel/tire specs. Slipping/sliding in every corner is not the way to learn how to drive a GT3 either. (maybe at an autocross, but not on a track). You can start with a street tire and progress from there. Just work on gaining a good understanding of under/over steer and how to balance your inputs of wheel, throttle, and brake efforts. Max grip is at the full limit of adhesion. Once you start sliding you are exceeding the grip level and the tire has difficulty regaining it's road holding force. Have the car setup with mild understeer so your not chasing the back end yet. As you get better the setup can be more aggressive.

jittsl

I suspect our friend is joking but..... Self control, seat time and good instruction are your friends in learning to drive a 996 GT3.

RickBetterley

As a a percentage of cars at DE events, there is an inordinate number of Gt3 crashes.
Get thee a lot of instructor time.

ProCoach

Hah, Rick! You're not a Quaker, are you? <grin> My uncle and grandparents "thee'd" and "thou'd" all the time. It was a good influence on me, I think...

ep3_lol

Sounds like autocross advice. Go 11/10 there, hit a cone and maybe spin. 11/10 at the track can easily end much worse. Build yourself up to that point, don't force yourself into it.

dan212

Putting bad tires on a GT3 isn't a good option. But driving a 996 GT3 with OEM suspension (drop links and such for safety aside) will make you a smoother, more balanced better driver because it will not let you throw the car around. Forces you to be smooth and balanced. I finally changed from the OEM springs shocks motor mounts and all of of the other slippery slope parts to as much as I could put on a car without a full cage. Didn't make me faster, just made the car easier to drive.

Don't cripple the car. But put your efforts into being better than and faster than your equipment.

Or did I misunderstand your question??

J richard

Just to buck the trend...

If I had access to a nice open parking lot, a gt3 and a crappy set of tires... Hell yea! In the wet, more gooder! With an instructor with you to show you the handling characteristics at the limit of adhesion most goodest! Basically the same as paying a crapload of money to get a skid car. Not to mention a crapload of fun. It will show you what the basics of car contol, throttle steer, over and understeer, threshold braking and contact patch management are all about.

Putting crappy *** tires on an overpowered sportscar is basically the origins of drifting... And while I think it is pretty dumb as a sport it does involve some considerable car control at the top tier (flame on, but hard to argue...)

However on the track in a DE, I second the opinions of sticking to street rubber and getting good instruction; not worth the effort or the potential risk at speed.

AudiOn19s

this is going to sound like a broken record....track it on OEM street tires to get the feel for it. When you do progress don't jump straight to hoosiers go get a set of Nitto NT-01 which is technically an r-compound tire but it behaves very much like a street tire. I learned more from switching back to Nitto's this year on my car than I ever could have on stickier tires.

Most importantly, put a good alignment and setup on the car. Soo many of them are completely out of whack if they're not regularly setup that it can make them a nightmare to drive.

Start with a solid foundation and work up the speed from there. Oh, and don't forget to enjoy it along the way

Andy

utkinpol

no. you need to coach your reflexes and get basic car control skills to sense how your usual sets of tires perform, you need to get used to 2 primary sets - your rain tires and your dry tires.
for rain tires i use dunlop z1 star spec in 235/275 on 8/10 narrow rims and it works fine. dry tires are much wider on 9"/12" wide rims and they have much more grip. so you need to learn how dry tires will feel in rain, how rain tires will feel after rain stops and track dries out.

for any new tires best way for you to learn is to sign for any local autocross event, put those tires on and go practice with all spins, slides, etc in a safe environment. only way to learn how well your car grips is to get car to that limit and learn how car behaves when you overstep those limits, only way to learn how to prevent car from a spin on a track is to get those reflexes built how to correct it before it`s too late, only way to learn it is to practice it. obviously you cannot do anything like it on a track, as it will not end good, so, go to AX or skidpad, and be safe. and, forget about street driving for practice of anything - you never get car even close to those lateral forces on a street.

and point is not to put crappy tires on a car to 'learn' - point is to use proper tires and learn how your traction changes when tires warm up, how it starts to skip out when you overheat those tires, how traction changes when you heat cycle tires out, how they behave hot, warm, cold, how it differs when they full tread and then at 2/32th, etc. it takes time to build all those reflexes but it is worth it as those reflexes will save you on a track later if somethig unexpected happens and you will need to rely on your own experience to correct and save your car and yourself instead of putting both feet down with closed eyes. people with enough experience can do all required tuning on a track as they already know what to expect. if you dfo not know what to expect and how to sense understeer, oversteer, improperly set sway bars, uneven traction - go and practice it at AX.

utkinpol

why i also always say AX is the best - it is a timed event. there is very simple way to learn there when it is you do it 'right' - when you do it right your run time will get to the top of the list. just on skidpad it is just a game, when you run in a competition you do not have to second guess if it was done right or wrong - you will see it right away.

multi21

Coming from the cars you mentioned, the 996 GT3 will take some time to learn to drive well. Sliding it around is not the fastest way in this car. If you do have a chance to autocross in a lot large enough where you get into 3rd gear this will give you a foundation of how the car will react when "provoked" into something it doesn't want to do in a relatively safe environment. AX in wet conditions will accelerate that learning curve and give a baseline of what the car will do and hopefully what you can do to save it on track. Buying a narrow set of rims and old tires is a waste of money, however. The car has enough power to break away street tires easily. Perhaps a cheap set of 300 TW street tires is better than expensive Michelins.

Congrats on the purchase, the 996 GT3 is a raw beast that should bring years of driving pleasure.