ProCoach

Great post, Scott. That's the thinking that will keep you in one piece.

Bob Rouleau

Scott, I don't disagree with you. Some events are essentially racing practice, timing data acquisition and a drive to be faster than the other guy. Under those circumstances, treat the event like a race and take all precautions. What we call HPDE is mostly drivers trying to go faster than the guy in front and that's like racing isn't it? Open passing and racing ...hmm, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck So, yeah use all the safety gear to stack the odds in your favor.

ProCoach

I don't know, Bob. In the end, everyone I work with wants to make SURE they balance the odds in safety's favor. Sure, they use DAQ and lap timing to quantify performance improvement and yes, so MANY drivers have done this so much for so long that the pass anywhere (usually with a point) is for the benefit of traffic flow and to reduce trains. Or maybe I'm naive...

J richard

Use you're own barometer. If you feel you need more safety equipment you probably do. If you don't feel you(and the people you run with) are running at the level it's required then probably not, but if everyone in your run group is in nomex and you're not, you may want to reset your thinking...

I would maximize the protection the vehicle provides; stock with 3pts-helmet and cotton clothes, prepped with a roll bar & harness-helmet/Hans/suit optional (or single layer nomex), gutted racecar-full gear every time. You know when you need it, you'll have that uncomfortable feeling that you're naked without it...

To hell with what everyone else thinks, it's your ***...

ProCoach

And that's my message to the OP...

Matt Romanowski

I have to go with Peter on this one. I think for the amount of money we spend on this hobby, safety gear is a pretty small addition to the expenses. Bad things happen regardless of experience, driving level (8/10 vs 10/10), preparation, and everything else.

Also, I think Bob's notion of DAQ is skewed. Can it help you go faster? Heck ya. So does all the other forms of (driver) education that we participate in. Instructors are there to teach students to be safe, have fun, and learn the skills necesarry to get around the track quicker. You could argue the only difference between using the "butt o'meter" and DAQ is the precision.

74goldtarga

I don't think I've ever been to a DE where a car didn't leave on a flatbed draining vital fluids as it went. I need side nets and a suit myself, but I did all other safety before I did a thing for performance. I'm always a bit uncomfortable when people have modded high HP cars and no safety equipment besides a helmet. I will say I've never seen a serious injury at our club events - thank goodness. I also feel safer on track than driving home but I am not sure if that is real or illusory - still, trucks in traffic make me nervous.

I have had a racing equipment dealer talk me out of a multi-zone fire extinguisher system arguing that activating the system is a waste of time and that they are often not that effective anyway - his argument was to stop and get out of the car as fast as possible and then walk away in case of a fire, interested in what others think about this.

Veloce Raptor

For what it's worth, whenever I am coaching, I am in full safety gear.

Mark Dreyer

And I believe you instituted that approach after coaching me, right Dave?

Since the days when I drove a 996 GT3 on track, and my speed was increasing, I became increasingly aware of the risk and committed to not driving street cars while pushing to my limits on track. Since then I've owned two properly setup race cars. My current Boxilla replaced a spec E-30 which I put into the concrete barrier past turn 16 at Sebring after an early apex sent me into the grass and you know the rest of the story.

I will still on rare occasions drive a street car on track (am thinking of doing a few laps in my TT some day) but not often, and when I do it will be 7/10's.

mrbill_fl

this is a FUEL fire...

its not what I would call a major off, or something that could NOT happen at any DE event.





you bet your azz I wear all the safety gear I can.

Racerrob

What medical is available at RA for a DE? One ambulance I presume?

I have never seen it mandatory at a DE to report to medical but it should be the rule as it is at most races.

Rceron

In reference to the incident at RA, was there a safety issue with his particular helmet? From what I read this was not a neck issue but maybe some brain swelling (just guessing). So besides all the other safety equipment he could have had would a different brand/style of helmet have helped?

utkinpol

helmet got nothng to do with that, if you run in any non-containment seat, with hans or without, a strong side impact may and will, most likely, cause a serious injury.

it was discussed here many times - you got to have a containment seat with side wings to minimize head side movements, then on top of it - nets on sides to catch your head. what DE street cars got such systems? close to none. most of 'modded' cars at DE do not even have stock seats anymore, means side curtain airbags are gone, those who install momo steering wheel do not have front airbags, so, what do you have then? nothing. manufacturers do a lot of crash tests to make sure embedded systems are designed to save people, we instead put on heavy helmets on to make head heavier and remove all pre-installed safety systems.

anybody who gets close enough to competitive lap times should think a bit what it is you drive, mechanically, what are your chances to survive if your tire blows or you slip on somebody`s spill at 100+mph and meet with a concrete wall. it is all fun and games and bragging cr@p until it settles down - it is just a hobby with a very real chance not to come home in one piece if you screw up.

that is where common sense should probably kick in but in reality people just want to have fun with a minimal effort spent and sometimes it does end up like with Walter. for me it is not even a question - i see pretty clear that if i will keep this hobby going i will need to build a dedicated car with full cage, proper seat, nets and fire suppression. and if it means to have a break from track - it is not a problem. otherwise it is just gets into a nasty russian roulette, driving fast on a track waiting to slip out on somebody else`s oil.

E55AMG

Holy Sh*t

chrenan

I use a Cobra Evolution GT seat (halo with cutouts style), HANS, 6 point harnesses and a roll bar in my track car. This is for time attack events (point by passing on the straight only), runway autocross (fast) and a few untimed lapping events (I don't really enjoy those).

The car is driven to and from events, so clearly there is compromise involved. I wouldn't want any less safety equipment, that is for sure. I'm not near the fastest guys on track when I go, so I definitely get some funny looks about the safety stuff in the car. However, you really don't need to be going fast to damage a human body, we're very fragile as decades of Judo and many horrible injuries has taught me. I often think people who take safety lightly have never really injured themselves, had to recover and rehab with extensive physio. It's not something you want to repeat.

This thread has got me seriously thinking about a suit. Any tips? Is it all in? Is there a "light" option in terms of just undergarments? Open to any advice.