E55AMG

Didn't think it was appropriate to ask questions in VR's thread about the very sad incident at RA. I was actually going to post in the thread a few weeks ago about the instructor at Barber that didn't seem that interested in safety.

Anyway, as some may remember i came here about a year ago asking if it would be crazy for a beginner to get a dedicated track car. I had made the decision to make more of a commitment and also made the decision to hire a pro racer/instructor. almost everyone here thought a dedicated car was a great car - especially from a safety perspective. as i mentioned in that thread i was a bit worried about coming across as a poseur - you know "what's this guy in DE doing with a track car"? Never really gave that much thought after I got the car and started running it.

In the thread a few weeks ago there were some mention of a full suit. I did not use one this year - and I will say i didn't for the sole reason of what I said above. "A full suit in DE Blue run group"? How silly is that going to look?

Since the thread a few weeks ago and certainly after VR's thread about the RA incident i'm starting to re-think things. I"m pretty sure the risk of fire is a lot less than impact but why not reduce your risks anyway you can?

More specifically, was the car involved at RA a full track car with cage etc.?

what else can I do to increase my safety? I have a Bell M4 helmet. Is there something better? I know there is lighter but is there safer than what I have now? Also, I have Recaro/HANS containment seat; is there any reason to have right side net? Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

KaiB

I like the idea of a (properly fitted, properly installed) right side net and will be installing one this winter.

At Hallett two weeks ago, my raceport buddy went off and smacked the inside tire wall rear quarter and then right quarter - rather hard. He's fine and the car was able to race that weekend with a bit of duct tape.

He said afterwards that he remembered a hard hit, helmet to containment seat wing, and then into the net. We both agreed then that the net did "something"...the alternative would have been continued travel within the cockpit. Nuff said, and it's a minor $$ investment.

ProCoach

My opinion only, but one I'm asked in a professional capacity at least several times a week.

Just as your concerns about "coming off" in a DE in a dedicated track car faded over time, as you did the wise thing and hired a pro/driver/instructor, as you recognized that the reason why you "didn't wear a suit in Blue Group" was because of the impression and outward perceptions was perhaps mistaken, you are ABSOLUTELY on the right course with your careful evaluation of your "risk exposure" and earnest desire to reduce it.

Wear a suit. It's WAY cheaper than a day in a burn unit. The M4 is a fine helmet. You can add a right side net, but IMO, the halo seats, properly mounted are terrific. What head and neck restraint system are you using? Do you have a master cut-off switch? (I assume you do in a dedicated car), have you had an independent evaluation of your harness mountings, roll cage/bar and other safety items?

Most of the folks that I work with do this for fun. To keep it fun (and often to an acceptable risk/benefit ratio to not only themselves, their loved ones and to their friends), they want to leave NO STONE unturned to reduce their risk exposure.

I do believe that it's safer on the track than it is driving home from an event on public roads, but like you say, "why not reduce the risks any way you can?"

That's a sound policy, no matter what run group, type of car, event or level of experience you have.

I've seen too much happen that was out of the hands of the people who sustained injury or worse.

E55AMG

thanks Peter. I am using a HANS and always asking my tech to check harnesses/fitment, etc. I do have a master cutoff switch as well as fire suppression.

The right side net may be overkill but as KaiB said, that is one of the few "cheap" things one can buy for this car/hobby

pontifex4

Can or should you use a right side net without a window net?

winders

The primary function of the window net is to keep your arms in the car in case of roll over. In an impact, the right side net is designed to guide your head and shoulders back into the seat.

Both are safety items but are not directly related in operation.

Scott

Steamboat

Chris, I find that when temps are >85 degrees ambient a driving suit becomes uncomfortably hot and above 100 degrees you become a candidate for IV fluids after suiting up, sitting on the grid for 10 minutes and then running for 25 or 30 minutes. You might want to seriously consider a cool suit system which eliminates those concerns. Or perhaps a $1500 suit is the answer.

Alternatively, when temps rise and I don't wear my $500 suit, I do wear a Sparco Carmyth shirt, nomex undies, knee length socks and balaclava, gloves, driving shoes, etc. I'm sure it's not as good as the suit would be in a pinch but at least I don't worry about succumbing to a heat related event while on the track which would carry it's own set of consequences. Best,

mklaskin

Nothing wrong with wearing a suit, in a dedicated track car, while attending a DE. I have a right side net, and while it did take me a little time to get used to it, I would not go without now. In fact, I plan to upgrade my driver's side net and add a secondary (driver's side) net over the winter.

The poseur is the guy who has the car, and all the gear, drives slow on track, and then complains about everyone else while also bragging about how quick he was/is.

mglobe

I'll probably get flamed for this, but in my opinion, in a car that does not have a cage, the need for a suit is less since egress from the vehicle is typically much quicker than it is in a caged race car. Will a suit decrease your risk of getting burned? Yes of course. But the risk of that is much less in a street car, and in hot climates, using a suit increases your risk of dehydration and/or heat stroke.

ProCoach

If you hydrate correctly, and with the best grade equipment (Stand21, Sparco X-Light and others) as well as the commonly available cool suit (cold water recirculating systems), you can avoid gross dehydration. Or, in the Southeast, you trade your July and August track days for February and November ones or head North to Tremblant, Mosport and the Glen in the summer.

All should read Charles Espenlaub's harrowing account of his escape from a miata in the 25 Hour race. It's a blueprint for planning emergency egress from a burning car.

I NEVER thought I'd ever need to think about that, but I can tell you it's a challenge getting out amid smoke and fire in an OPEN car...

One of the great things my local NASA franchise does as part of its Comp school is to make sure drivers can get out of the car unsighted in 15 seconds. Most fail without prep...

mklaskin

Not limited to the South...My first race was at Putnam Park in July of '06. High 90's in temp and humidity all weekend. Like 98 degrees and 99%. I simply drank enough water and Gatorade until I pee'd perfectly clear.

ProCoach

That's the test!

Agreed, not just the South. I have clients now that use bespoke, portable cockpit A/C units in their cars...

Bob Rouleau

Here's another viewpoint. If you view DE as racing or racing practice, by all means use all the safety gear. If on the other hand you see DE as driver's Ed there is a notion of not taking risks - driving at 8/10ths instead of "flat-out".

DE started as driving street cars with standard safety gear. It has evolved in some regions into gentleman racing and the number of incidents reflects that reality. At a "pure" driver's ed event there really should be no incidents except for breakdowns and even those can be prevented by proper preparation.

I'm also sure that a pro coach like Lolaman will keep his student safe - quick for sure but with safety margins. Under those circumstances, I see nothing wrong with driving a stock Porsche with all its airbags intact and regular cotton clothing. I wear a suit HANS and harnesses for racing but for a cruise around the track I don't feel the need.

Best,

E55AMG

Dean, I would see my instructor in his suit and say "my God, you must be dying". He did tell me that if I wanted to go to VIR in August that I would be on my own LOL. he's a Canadien so I can understand

winders

Since I am unable to control what others do and you never know when something may fail on your car or someone else's, my axiom is "Hope for the best but prepare for the worst."

Scott