Pirelli P Zero slicks vs Toyo RS1-Hoosier A6?
10-01-2012, 04:17 PM
#1
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Pirelli P Zero slicks vs Toyo RS1-Hoosier A6?
Okay I run used Pirelli P Zero slicks (DH) on my 928 & love them.....they last for quite a while, typically 3-4 hours on track and hold their grip until they cord....I've even set lap records on lightly corded tires....
Some friends that have run ideal cycled Hoosier R6 or A6 say they are much faster than the Pirellis....they say up to 3 seconds faster (2 minute lap)....BUT about the same once they drop off ideal cycles.....
I run 18x10 wheels all around with 275/645-18 Pirellis....I also have a set of custom forgeline wheels in 17" that can fit 295/35-17 up front and 315/35-17 in rear......I am wondering if the investment in a set of new hoosier A6 is worth it..... I also have heard great things about the Toyo RS1....
I am planning on racing in GTS3 next season and a 3 second bump would make my car very competitive....especially since I have no aero right now
Some friends that have run ideal cycled Hoosier R6 or A6 say they are much faster than the Pirellis....they say up to 3 seconds faster (2 minute lap)....BUT about the same once they drop off ideal cycles.....
I run 18x10 wheels all around with 275/645-18 Pirellis....I also have a set of custom forgeline wheels in 17" that can fit 295/35-17 up front and 315/35-17 in rear......I am wondering if the investment in a set of new hoosier A6 is worth it..... I also have heard great things about the Toyo RS1....
I am planning on racing in GTS3 next season and a 3 second bump would make my car very competitive....especially since I have no aero right now
10-01-2012, 09:38 PM
#2
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Ive been doing this a long time . slicks are always faster than DOTs, by a good margin unless its their hard compound. you really think that you will put on R6 or A6 and run 3 seconds faster (i.e. 1:59 at thunderhill with the hill vs your 2.02?) tell you what , Ill let you use some 3 heat cycle set of A6s and if you beat me, you can have my car! 
your friends are smokin CRACK! the pirellis are amazing. look what the porsche GT3s did on them in world challenge. almost 3-4 seconds faster than the toyos RA1, which are about 1-2 seconds slower than the Rs and As Hoosiers.
one of the mustangs ran the pirellis. also in our race with NCRC, the bmw had pirellis. they are notably faster than the R100 slicks. seriously who are these "friends " of yours? do they work for hoosier?
your friends are smokin CRACK! the pirellis are amazing. look what the porsche GT3s did on them in world challenge. almost 3-4 seconds faster than the toyos RA1, which are about 1-2 seconds slower than the Rs and As Hoosiers.
one of the mustangs ran the pirellis. also in our race with NCRC, the bmw had pirellis. they are notably faster than the R100 slicks. seriously who are these "friends " of yours? do they work for hoosier?
10-01-2012, 09:53 PM
#3
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Ive been doing this a long time . slicks are always faster than DOTs, by a good margin unless its their hard compound. you really think that you will put on R6 or A6 and run 3 seconds faster (i.e. 1:59 at thunderhill with the hill vs your 2.02?) tell you what , Ill let you use some 3 heat cycle set of A6s and if you beat me, you can have my car!
your friends are smokin CRACK! the pirellis are amazing. look what the porsche GT3s did on them in world challenge. almost 3-4 seconds faster than the toyos RA1, which are about 1-2 seconds slower than the Rs and As Hoosiers.
one of the mustangs ran the pirellis. also in our race with NCRC, the bmw had pirellis. they are notably faster than the R100 slicks. seriously who are these "friends " of yours? do they work for hoosier?
your friends are smokin CRACK! the pirellis are amazing. look what the porsche GT3s did on them in world challenge. almost 3-4 seconds faster than the toyos RA1, which are about 1-2 seconds slower than the Rs and As Hoosiers.
one of the mustangs ran the pirellis. also in our race with NCRC, the bmw had pirellis. they are notably faster than the R100 slicks. seriously who are these "friends " of yours? do they work for hoosier?
Its just another GTS3 racer who runs an E36..... at 1:55.1 on the bypass....While he really liked the breakaway characteristics of the Pirelli (I run the hardest compound DH) he honestly feels they are 3 seconds slower than his ideal A6......
I LOVE the way the pirellis feel at the limit...you can slide the car quite a bit and not loose much grip at all.....say sliding at 99% grip....vs some of the dots I drove on would fall off a cliff at high slip angles....the BFG R1 was really bad...it would stick...then its
time...it takes a HUGE correction and massive loss of speed to save it.....Some people say the Toyo RS1 is faster than Pirelli others say its slower...I dunno....
10-02-2012, 12:18 AM
#4
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Just a reference point for GTS 3, Tony C. was consistently in the low 1:44s in his brother's E36 at Sears over the weekend. (I think he's sub-1:53 Thunderhill Bypass)
10-02-2012, 12:33 AM
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Looks like I will be better off either going down to GTS2 or up to GTS4....but there isn't much competition in either one....
10-02-2012, 01:22 AM
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Brian
3 seconds is a hugh margin. But Kibort's car is pretty nice so only one way to find out. Would be worth the price of the tires for the entertainment value if nothing else.
I have no idea where to find 16-18 seconds that would take a miricale. What do those BMW boys know that we don't?
3 seconds is a hugh margin. But Kibort's car is pretty nice so only one way to find out. Would be worth the price of the tires for the entertainment value if nothing else.
I have no idea where to find 16-18 seconds that would take a miricale. What do those BMW boys know that we don't?
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10-02-2012, 01:58 AM
#8
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My thinking is I can gain almost all of it through weight loss and aero....
aero alone could be 4 seconds easy.... not sure how much 140lbs will gain me?
If the 3 seconds are true.....then its
3 for tires new hoosier A6 295-315
4 for aero
that puts me at 1:52's which is lap record pace for GTS3 and also 1:55's over the top which is 3 seconds faster than Kiborts best with 370whp.... Keep in mind top GT3 cups (997) run 1:47 on the bypass....I think they are around 400whp-2700lbs....
A VERY good driver in a 3260lb (wet off track) 366whp C5 vette did a 1:50.8 on Hoosier A6.... 315 front 335 rear..... It does have serious aero though
I really need to get a pro level driver in the car to see what really is possible
10-02-2012, 07:53 AM
#9
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^^^ Not wanting to rain on your parade, but your adding seconds up like their M&Ms on a table. I can tell from making class transitions that aero and power will certainly help drop times, but 3 seconds is eternitiy on a race track. Look at the lap time differential at Mid O Nationals between GTS3 and 4 and that will give you a better indicator of how much the hp ratio will assist your times. Keep in mind that the car and driver for putting down those times is running at 110%. Setup your data system and get some pro level coaching then jump in to the fray and see where you end up.
10-02-2012, 08:16 PM
#10
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^^^ Not wanting to rain on your parade, but your adding seconds up like their M&Ms on a table. I can tell from making class transitions that aero and power will certainly help drop times, but 3 seconds is eternitiy on a race track. Look at the lap time differential at Mid O Nationals between GTS3 and 4 and that will give you a better indicator of how much the hp ratio will assist your times. Keep in mind that the car and driver for putting down those times is running at 110%. Setup your data system and get some pro level coaching then jump in to the fray and see where you end up.
brian. the light weight E36s run pretty fast on slicks. slighlty faster than me at thunderhill, manly because the first entire half of the track is ONLY grip oriented. (i.e handling) the rest is a nice mix, like you would find at Laguna or sears.
slicks are faster than any DOT tires, including the A6s. the only slicks that are not measurably faster, are the r100s hoosiers, because baseically they are the same compound, (or near) they last an entire race, where the A6s seem to burn out .
again, like bob said, you cant add up time. you are pretty fast now, aero might giive you a half second or so. MAX it depends on the track and much of thundehill doesnt respond well to aero because the speeds are pretty slow. for a 1:50 guy, its different.
lets get that car out there, get some data aqu. and let me run it around and see what you got. plus you can use my A series tires and see what you think as a differnece. pirellis are amazing! everyone drops major time with them , with no other changes!
10-03-2012, 12:43 AM
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I have Traqumate with chase cam and you're welcome to it. I would advise placing a second camera on the driver. It would be good to compare styles and times.
I'll drive it too just for fun I'm about 100lbs heavier than you 2.
I'll drive it too just for fun I'm about 100lbs heavier than you 2.
10-03-2012, 01:57 AM
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Brian
3 seconds is a hugh margin. But Kibort's car is pretty nice so only one way to find out. Would be worth the price of the tires for the entertainment value if nothing else.
I have no idea where to find 16-18 seconds that would take a miricale. What do those BMW boys know that we don't?
3 seconds is a hugh margin. But Kibort's car is pretty nice so only one way to find out. Would be worth the price of the tires for the entertainment value if nothing else.
I have no idea where to find 16-18 seconds that would take a miricale. What do those BMW boys know that we don't?
LOL.. They drive BMW's.. Not 928's
10-03-2012, 02:02 AM
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Or 944 Turbos? ROFL. Just no drama fun lately.
Now back to the regularly scheduled program.
- Wouldn't you say some tires are faster because they fit your driving style better than others?
Mark, just watched your videos on your sig. Very fun stuff. First one is private and won't let me view it though. That last one is great with the brakes. Kind of a bad decision to run stock brake lines though. BTW, I haven't met an NSX owner that could drive their car. Well, maybe one or two.
Ara Malkhassian is one. Mazda Miata's were his thing after I met him at a few NSX get togethers here in Houston. He kept wanting to show me videos in a Miata. I had no interest. AlARARACING.
Now back to the regularly scheduled program.
- Wouldn't you say some tires are faster because they fit your driving style better than others?
Mark, just watched your videos on your sig. Very fun stuff. First one is private and won't let me view it though. That last one is great with the brakes. Kind of a bad decision to run stock brake lines though. BTW, I haven't met an NSX owner that could drive their car. Well, maybe one or two.
Ara Malkhassian is one. Mazda Miata's were his thing after I met him at a few NSX get togethers here in Houston. He kept wanting to show me videos in a Miata. I had no interest. AlARARACING.
Last edited by 95ONE; 10-03-2012 at 02:45 AM.
10-03-2012, 08:56 PM
#15
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Or 944 Turbos? ROFL. Just no drama fun lately.
Now back to the regularly scheduled program.
- Wouldn't you say some tires are faster because they fit your driving style better than others?
Mark, just watched your videos on your sig. Very fun stuff. First one is private and won't let me view it though. That last one is great with the brakes. Kind of a bad decision to run stock brake lines though. BTW, I haven't met an NSX owner that could drive their car. Well, maybe one or two. Ara Malkhassian is one. Mazda Miata's were his thing after I met him at a few NSX get togethers here in Houston. He kept wanting to show me videos in a Miata. I had no interest. AlARARACING.
Now back to the regularly scheduled program.
- Wouldn't you say some tires are faster because they fit your driving style better than others?
Mark, just watched your videos on your sig. Very fun stuff. First one is private and won't let me view it though. That last one is great with the brakes. Kind of a bad decision to run stock brake lines though. BTW, I haven't met an NSX owner that could drive their car. Well, maybe one or two.
Ara Malkhassian is one. Mazda Miata's were his thing after I met him at a few NSX get togethers here in Houston. He kept wanting to show me videos in a Miata. I had no interest. AlARARACING.Good point about tires fitting your driving style!!!! I have found that I literally CAN'T drive the Pirellis hard enough....the harder I go, the better they get since they have more temp....I set my best lap on the 2nd to last lap of the session by pushing really hard.....last lap had traffic...bummer.... Still the highest temps I have ever seen were in the low end of the heat range....180F max....Pirelli recommends 160-220F with a max of 250 for the DH I run.....
The other thing I noticed about pirelli is how horrible they are on cold days....it literally will take a couple sessions to get them anywhere near good....but I should run a DH slick below about 70F ambient anyway