mglobe

Miata... Seriously. Same fun, much much less expense.

ubercooper

probably should have started off with that statement

I vote Miata or 944 as well... less $$ if/when it goes shiny side down

utkinpol

well, only thing i can recommend based on this info - hold on with ideas on what car to 'build'. building and maintaining real race car is a whole different game.
get a simple affordable vehicle with manual transmission - miata, mx5, older E36/E39 bmw will work, boxster or vette will work - it does not matter really what to start with.
if you are in USA - join local club of your brand - mazda, bmw, porsche all have clubs, any club runs its own programs for driver education (DE) - attend those and you will figure it out.

disasterman

By the way GTgears is working on my transmission right now. 951 stock box with a GT Diff, GBox sourced cryo treated/micro poliished S2 R&P.

A proper 944LS build is going to be similar to a used Cayman build.

Yes my car is quicker than a Cayman Interseries, even with the restriction down to 322 HP. We are putting down 385 HP/380TQ without restriction. Handling would be on par with a Cayman.

If you don't have track time, buy the Cayman and dual purpose it. When you get enough seat time to get develop or purchase a track only car, you will have a much greater base of understanding to make a decision.

333pg333

Jim, that's interesting that you're sticking with the S2 R&P? I've always heard stock gearing is suitable for a warm V8.

disasterman

It depends of course on the track but at my current horsepower/wt it works very well at the tracks I frequent, especially Mid Ohio.

Brewer944

Thank you for all the comments.

Yes, I have been arriving at the same conclusions as the replies. I was focusing on the wrong thing. I recently took up badminton. Instead of spending hours deciding which raquet to buy before I went to play, I played with a 1980s aluminum POS with decade old strings until I got good enough to want a modern carbon fibre one for $60. There is a lesson there somewhere... hmmm..

So, I have reached the conclusions:

1) I clearly want a car with better off the line performance and greater reliability for my daily drive.

and 2) I also clearly want to get on the track. I really need to drive cars fast, somewhere, soon.

Shouldn't try to combine the two wants into the same thing.

So, time to start a "how to get onto the track with what I have" project. The Cayman or LSx decision can wait. It's good to have things to look forward to.


Thanks for all the comments. It has been very helpful! I have a plan forming....

Brewer944

That is the kind of comparison I was looking for... though I agree that from my perspective, the point is moot. Still nice to talk about the differences, knowing that that level of performance is realistically accessible.

Brewer944

Yes... that is something to consider, though I have a serious crush on certain Porsches.

Brewer944

Uh oh... 11:10 makes a compelling case for tracking as cheap a car as possible. What's a good racing game for X-Box? The kids have one for Kinect games but I never used it.

Seriously... that was some very nice racing. Your lines looked great. You seemed so much faster than many - how was your NA set up? Tires, etc? And how come you were faster than that boxster on the curves? That was not supposed to happen in my understanding, all else being equal. It was you, rather than the car, correct?

I am not sure mine could currently survive hitting the red line so many times, though I haven't tried, to be fair.

By the way... my daughter wants to know "why is that silly dinosaur eating a plate?"

utkinpol

what car do you have/drive now? if you want a different car for DE - how much money you want to spend?

Brewer944

1986 944 NA MT, mostly stock.

(I have another two cars that I drive but neither is as much of a pleasure to drive. One is a 1995 civic coupe with a B18 DOHC engine swap that I did mostly for reliability, not performance. The donor had only 50k miles on it. That one would probably stand up to track abuse quite well, and can take some performance upgrades... but it is front wheel drive and currently automatic, for since-evaporated family reasons. The other is a 2012 SUV for carting the family around: A big NO.)

The biggest issue I have with using the 944 for DE is that I fear things frequently breaking and having to tow home from the track, and losing out on the fees. I recently lost the garage temporarily, though I have access to a place where I can work on a car for shorter periods. In any case, I won't track a car until I get the garage back. It is for when I get it back that I want to be prepared with a plan.

I thought that the LS conversion would have less reliability issues than the current NA engine. It's a way of allowing this 26 year old car to run another 26 years! The performance gains are just a bonus. But a Cayman could be an out-of-the box solution.

From what I gather, a Miata makes a nice alternative that may perhaps require less downtime and would be equally pleasurable on the track. I could start looking at creating or buying a track dedicated Miata as a starter.

I can spend roughly 20k plus or minus... that's a bit tight for a Cayman now, but as I said, I won't be in a position time and space wise for a little while anyway so I am just exploring options now... the budget is anticipated to grow in two years' time when I return to full time work (No, being part time does not mean free time! I have young kids to raise until school age), and Caymans will get cheaper. I don't think I could justify a track-only Cayman though.


The point of all this hand-wringing is that I have arrived at a crossroads for the 944... I need to make a long term plan for her or look for alternatives, because she isn't getting any more reliable with age. I have loved the looks since I was 11, but there are many things I have not learned to love about the internals!! I am also getting spousal pressure to decide between the civic and Porsche, so I need to either store or sell the 944 now if I go the sensible, reliable DD route.

How much would it cost getting her to competitive and reliable spec? I mean new suspension components all around, rebuild engine, roll cage, brakes, maybe rebuild transmission, plus whatever else? I don't think I would like to do even DE without at least engine and suspension redone.

Maybe a beater Miata would be a better starter vehicle, for ease of working on and lower costs when stuff breaks... I may even be able to start sooner with this route.

That's what I am thinking now. Sell the 944 It feels horrible to even think about not experiencing the cornering for a year or two... but breakdowns are extra inconvenient right now - not that I've had one in a while, touch wood, but I see comparables dropping like flies.

...And begin gathering information on the Miata, including local sale prices in order to be ready for when the garage and time come back. That would leave a lot of spare $$ over the Cayman. Spare $$ are always nice, if I can get the same thrills out of Japanese metal. I did used to have a Mazda3 which was o.k.

I can always buy another 944 or 951 or even 948 again later, right?

Sorry for the long, gratuitously self-obsessed and expository post! Cars.... they have a way of causing emotion and logic to swirl around until you have a mind-fog that you have to clear out of the system.

GTgears

A properly tended and prepared Spec 944 is a very reliable car. Sell the Civic, use the proceeds to buy a trailer and start towing the 944 to the track using your SUV. Put some money into the 944 now to make/keep it reliable as you decide whether or not you really want it to be your track car. Do some DEs and get some instruction. See if the track bug really bites you or if it is just a passing fancy.

I know PCA members who have belonged for 20 years and do DEs with no aspirations to ever go race. They just like playing on the track 2 or 3 times a year with their 25 or 30 year old Porsche. Other people go off the deep end and start hauling their car all over the country for Club Racing. From what you have told us, I think you don't really know what you want yet. It may cost a little money, but the best way to figure out the answer to some of your deeper questions is to dip your foot in the pool and see if you like the water.

Brewer944

Some sage advice. I will run it by the wife.

She likes the 944 too as a DD but does NOT like it when something breaks. Example: we are without power steering for now since I disconnected the belt to stop leaking ATF all over the road. Guess how much fun she has parallel parking with a MOMO steering wheel!!

Brewer944

Yes I do. I want it ALL, NOW. Life is... Wrestling with compromise.