Nanotechnology in engine and gear oils - new company/sponsor intro
03-23-2013, 10:25 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
A general note about oils and weights. Something I lack from every oil manufacturer/supplier is a simple chart with oil temp and oil weight recommendations.
The general recommendation is to go with heavier oil for racing, but at the same time that will increase the oil temp a bit.
Plus when you're building a race engine all bets are off. I mean, with dry sump, a large volume of oil and a huge oil cooler you might very well never go beyond ~105 C / 221 F and in that scenario maybe a 5w/40 oil is a better choice than a 10w/60.
The "go with as heavy as you can" might be applicable when racing a stockish engine without upgraded coolers, but what would your recommendation be for the scenario above 67King?
The general recommendation is to go with heavier oil for racing, but at the same time that will increase the oil temp a bit.
Plus when you're building a race engine all bets are off. I mean, with dry sump, a large volume of oil and a huge oil cooler you might very well never go beyond ~105 C / 221 F and in that scenario maybe a 5w/40 oil is a better choice than a 10w/60.
The "go with as heavy as you can" might be applicable when racing a stockish engine without upgraded coolers, but what would your recommendation be for the scenario above 67King?
I would defer to the engine builder, to be honest. You have to remember that oil companies don't dictate specifications, they design to meet them. I understand what you are saying, but in reality, the right viscosity at any given temperature will be very different from engine to engine.
Having said that, even in the scenario you mentioned, it will depend on the application. If you are running a 24 hour enduro, I'd go with a 10W60, because over time, you will have fuel dilution, which will thin the oil. If you are doing DE's wiht 20 minute sessoins, you may go with 5W40. As mentioned earlier, if you are running professionally, and have a qualifying run to make, perhaps you run 0W20, then change to 5W40 for the race.
One rule of thumb some people follow is to run the thinnest oil you can run while still maintaining minimum specified oil pressure throughout the RPM range. And as an engine has more time on it, it may be necessary to increase the viscosity.
For the majority of people here, I'd say that older cars will run 10W50, and newer ones will run 5W40. If forced to dilleniate between old and new, I'd say OBDII (i.e. starting with 986 and 996).
Having said that, even in the scenario you mentioned, it will depend on the application. If you are running a 24 hour enduro, I'd go with a 10W60, because over time, you will have fuel dilution, which will thin the oil. If you are doing DE's wiht 20 minute sessoins, you may go with 5W40. As mentioned earlier, if you are running professionally, and have a qualifying run to make, perhaps you run 0W20, then change to 5W40 for the race.
One rule of thumb some people follow is to run the thinnest oil you can run while still maintaining minimum specified oil pressure throughout the RPM range. And as an engine has more time on it, it may be necessary to increase the viscosity.
For the majority of people here, I'd say that older cars will run 10W50, and newer ones will run 5W40. If forced to dilleniate between old and new, I'd say OBDII (i.e. starting with 986 and 996).
Do we have to completely throw old prejiduces or experiences out the window?
03-24-2013, 12:40 AM
#48
Race Car
Thread Starter
Here's teh case study on Karl's car:
http://performanceracingoils.com/PDF...case_study.pdf
03-24-2013, 12:53 AM
#49
Race Car
Thread Starter
I am also interested in this regards a very similar setup to Duke's. However our mean track temps will probably be higher in Australia than Sweden. Having said that, I would assume Duke is running in their Spring-Summer-Autumn where we don't run in our Summers, so perhaps similar temps. We are also both going to be running short Qualifying type formats so am curious to see 0w-20 mentioned. That sort of weight scares the crap out of me but perhaps I need to re-evaluate things. We normally run a dino 25w/60 and have had good success but now with a dry sump and new motor perhaps we can switch to a more modern oil of lighter weight with confidence. Even 5w/40 sends shudders up my spine though.
Do we have to completely throw old prejiduces or experiences out the window?
Do we have to completely throw old prejiduces or experiences out the window?
We also have some info from a high level professional builder who had issues losing engines with their prior oil, so they kept increasing the viscosity, but are looking at our lower viscosity stuff. That's all confidetial, so I can't post what details I do know, which isn't everything. Unfortunately, we're in a situation where a competitor has stickers on some cars.
03-24-2013, 11:44 AM
#50
Luke, I apologize, I had posted it up in a new thread, and had completely forgotten about mentioning it here.
Here's teh case study on Karl's car:
http://performanceracingoils.com/PDF...case_study.pdf
Here's teh case study on Karl's car:
http://performanceracingoils.com/PDF...case_study.pdf
03-24-2013, 03:03 PM
#51
Race Car
Thread Starter
03-26-2013, 06:17 AM
#53
Nordschleife Master
I'm seriously considering the 5w/40 NT oil for my new engine. 3.1l 16v turbo dry sump 500+ hp.
I will be doing time attack racing this year so only short sprint races. And the oil volume will be in the 10-14 liter range so plenty of oil to heat up.
I will be doing time attack racing this year so only short sprint races. And the oil volume will be in the 10-14 liter range so plenty of oil to heat up.
03-26-2013, 07:28 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
And I'm not talking about the beer 
03-26-2013, 12:45 PM
#56
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I saw that Miller's was mentioned in the New Cup Race Technology issue. It sighted the Australian Touring Car article and the work Miller's did with coupling the nano technology to the regular anti wear additives.
03-26-2013, 02:13 PM
#57
Race Car
Thread Starter
For those not familiar with the publicatoin, it is put out once per year from High Power Media, which is UK based, but has several magazines: https://www.highpowermedia.com/
03-26-2013, 09:52 PM
#58
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Matt, where did you see or get that? I've found two copies in the US, one a 2008 issue, one a 2011 issue. I know it got a mention in the most recent issue, and I have a PDF that I can't distribute. I've met a few NASCAR teams, and have a friend who is an engineer with Germain (Casey Mears). I'm hoping to get that in front of them. The article leads off talking about restrictor plate racing, and I spent a lot of time talking to Scott about the advantage there. FMEP will be a function of RPM, and it VE is reduced, FMEP will not be, meaning you'd see twice the benefit on a restrictor plate engine as a normal engine. Was happy to see a publication support what I was hypothesized when talking to folks there.
For those not familiar with the publicatoin, it is put out once per year from High Power Media, which is UK based, but has several magazines: https://www.highpowermedia.com/
For those not familiar with the publicatoin, it is put out once per year from High Power Media, which is UK based, but has several magazines: https://www.highpowermedia.com/
03-26-2013, 11:20 PM
#59
Rennlist Member