Not only do they have Newey and Vettel, but they can carry less fuel throughout the entire race distance. No wonder why under single lap, low fuel qualifying conditions the McLarens are so close to the Red Bulls only to be left in the dust by the end of lap 1 or 2...in a series where every ounce of weight counts, carrying up to 35 extra pounds for 190 miles is significant!!.


'Renault engines offer fuel advantage'

13 February 2012





Renault Sport F1, the engine supplier of Lotus (formely a fully-fledged works team), Reigning World Champions Red Bull, Williams and Caterham, argue that its 2012 powerplants will hold a fuel and driveability advantage over the rest of the field.

With the act of re-fuelling being banned from 2010, a battle has been taking place to balance fuel usage and on-track performance. During the past two years the fine line between too much and not enough fuel has been difficult to decifer, but Renault says the teams it provides can race with a lower fuel load than its closest rivals.

"The Mercedes engine is about 15 horsepower more powerful than ours," Jean François Caubet, Director of Renault F1 Sport, told Spain's AS. "The Ferrari also offers more power, but in terms of driveability and fuel economy the Renault engine is in front."

When discussing race advantage, Caubet explained that Renault-powered cars can line-up on the grid with 15 to 18 litres (approximately 20-24km) less fuel than its rivals.

"Red Bull can start races with 15 to 18 litres less petrol in the tank compared to the competition,'' he added of the crucial weight saving. "That makes the difference."

 

Interesting bit of information Pete.

IMO... the difference is Newey... he's been able to get to the front regardless of what team he's been associated with.

I thought Gastone had that same ability... results have been disappointing.

 

~25 lbs versus 15 HP? How many of you would take 15 HP for a 25 lbs weight penalty in your production-based race car? I would in a heart beat. In an open wheel formula car? I have no idea but I think the same rules apply.

I would think the lower weight from using less fuel would help mitigate the deficit, but not overcome it.

Scott

 

^^ Consider the calender. How many street courses and tighter tracks are there on the schedule vs. yesteryear when tracks like Hockenheim where on.

Would you take the 15 hp on a tighter track of the weight savings?

 

Power to weight stays roughly the same too. Assuming 800hp and 1300 lbs bases.

+ 15 hp = 1300 lbs / 815 hp = 1.59509

- 25 lbs = 1275 / 800 hp = 1.59375

Slight advantage to weight here. Perhaps that 15hp is through higher rev limits, so it's not used all the time, whereas the lower weight always matters.

 

Sure, but that weight advantage diminishes throughout the race. Both cars end up at the same weight at the end of the race.

Scott

 

But the weight advantage is most obvious when the cars at it's heaviest, cold tires and with the softest tires *due to having to use your qualifying tires to start the race*.

Another advantage with the weight savings is that in theory the RBR can go longer on the first stint without pitting

In general, I'd say that if you can't use all the HP all the time, I'd take the weight savings

 

Weight is evil in a race car. If you think 15lbs doesn't matter you need to think more. Especially in an open wheel car.

 

Build a better engine, they have the cash!!

 

Where did anyone say that 15 lbs (25 lbs, actually) doesn't matter????

The question is what is better, 25 less pounds or 15 more horsepower? Especially when the power advantage is constant and the weight advantage goes away in a linear fashion throughout the race.

Scott

 

Drive an open wheel car for the length of a Grand Prix and you'll agree weight is evil. Remember this is trying to reduce weight by grams everywhere for an advantage.

 

HP only helps in acceleration

Less weight helps everywhere (acceleration, braking, cornering, and tire degradation), especially in a F1 car.

 

Oh brother. I know weight is evil. That's not the question at hand.

The question is would Mercedes and Ferrari trade their power advantage for the fuel efficiency advantage that Renault has?

I don't think anyone here has that answer.....

Scott

 

I'm sure they would trade it for the Constructors Title!

 

I don't think they are trading, there is no blueprint that each team follows, they just try to build the best engine they can within the rules, while always looking for an advantage over the competition.

Also no one really knows if this is true, it can be PR mind games between the teams, for all we know the renault engines sip more gas and have less power, but its seems in the last few years Renault and Merc engines have been the engines to have.

But one thing I do know about engines is its all give an take and you cant have everything, and usually more HP means less longevity for an engine... but again no one knows outside of each of the builders secret facilities. And if Renault has a secret weapon, I doubt RB and the teams buying them would be happy with Renault spilling the beans to their competition. Which makes me believe this is just pre-season mind games.