Charles A. Toupin

What lap times are they doing? Can anyone give me comparisons so I can correlate with what lap times could be on tracks like WG/VIR...

Tx.

c.

earlyapex

Mike, thanks for keeping it "real"! The 2012 season will be a great one!

Chris M.

Based on Carl Van Austen's times at Road America this year I would say around 2:12 at WG.

Charles A. Toupin

Thanks for that. Gives me a good idea. That is about 2 seconds slower than FredC E stock 911.

c.

race911

Regarding cost, if I happen to ever reassemble my '73 faux RS shell back into a Spec 911 I'd be about $22K all in. Yes, a lot has been scrounged/found/scavenged. The underlying chassis came from my cousin, the one who built the 910. So it WAS a cheap starting point 10 years ago. My best estimation is that I'd be 2 sec/lap off pace.

This class bears no resemblance to the days when Rich Walton started it, and it was him and Behram (with one of my other chassis) pretty much making up their field. Is that good? I don't see what's happened over the years deterring from car count. Guys clearly have money to spend. As in Spec Whatever (Miata, SRF, etc.) you'll always have someone to run close with. Mostly depends on if you inherently like a torsion bar 911. I grew up with one, so it's kind of my first tongue; though one I've sort of tired of in comparison the 964/993 era cars I've grown into over the past 10 years.

Evan Fullerton

G50 has to use stock flywheel/clutch package, 915 can use whatever clutch with the stock flywheel. That is how they regulate the difference in shift speed. No weight penalty other than the difference in weight of the gearbox.

While many of the JWE cars and Rothsport cars are $100k+ (I would venture to say Tom's is well in to the 200's now if you add up the cost of development changes) it doesn't take that if you are a good driver. Tyson Schmidt being competitive in his garage built car with mostly used parts is evidence of this. Sure Tyson is a professional Porsche race mechanic who has worked at some of the best shops on the West Coast but he has a car anyone could build themselves for less than $30k.

mooty

Matt g50 is allowed in spec 911

Mahler9th

Some good points. I might ask the guys at Rothsport about lap times compared to alphabet cars. Hard to compare I think.

I think the prototype for the class cost more than $75k to build back 10-11 years ago, but even then, way less than half of that money was in stuff that added materially to the car's ability to go fast.

I doubt that Ken would be 2 seconds off the pace. Seriously doubt that.

Astroman

Of the few that I've raced with (only at Road America), they are very fast in a straight line but then probably suffer some in the corners on the RA-1s. On paper, I think their power to weight is around G and H class.

I bet that aside from Fred and a few others, they would be (should be) faster than the majority of E cars.

FrankyV

Surprising given the weight advantage of the Spec911. I don't see a reason to incur the expense of going the Spec route when you can run as fast or faster in D and E and have a good number of E cars to run against at every venue.

Mahler9th

I think it is great that the PCA has so many alphabet cars at so many events in other parts of the country. PCA has a great program, and it was a pleasure to race under the PCA sanction at RR IV in October.

For some reason, we have never had a lot of folks develop alphabet-class cars here in NorCal. In more recent times, this is most likely due to the emergence of Spec 911.

I am not sure what Spec 911 would bring to areas that already have a lot of alphabet cars showing up at a large number of events. Perhaps a lower annual tire budget would be the only tangible advantage.

I wonder if the continuum of cars in an area that has a lot of D and E competitors is as "tight" as what we have in Spec 911, in terms of performance capability. And I wonder if the tech/scrutineering load is heavier with the alphabet cars.

Of course, one thing we do out here that is quite different is that we have a series of events. That approach creates numerous major benefits, and cannot be emulated by PCA.

Happy Holidays

analogmike

I can see them being 2 seconds slower than Fred mostly due to tires, he runs Hoosiers and also has 15" wheels which gives better gearing and lower ride height without bad geometry.

The rules seem to limit horsepower, 1.5" headers will give great torque but not much power. Does anyone know what they put out at the wheels or crank? My current weber 2.7RS is about 210 to the wheels but has excellent torque. My old MFI 2.7RS had a little more power at the high end but much less torque in the midrange.

What SPEC911 would bring to those of us in F class, is a way to get away from the ridiculously fast Boxster S, easily cheating turbo 944s, and big 3.6 engine 964.

earlyapex

My spec 911 has a carb'd 3.0 motor and puts out 241 hp on the Jerry Woods engine dyno. This is pretty typical for the class.

The engine has been rebuilt once in 5 years of heavy track use and I expect the interval to the next top end rebuild to be even longer now that the driver has improved a bit.

Chris M.

I realize the original intent of the class was not to easily be able convert PCA D and E cars to SP911, but these are just some of the issues as I see them from E class.

The pros:
1. bigger brakes which means not having the ongoing maintenance of the D and E class stock braking system.
2. reduced weight
3. no need for a $1000 set of tires every weekend

The cons:
1. 16" wheels. Why on earth did they mandate the use of a wheel size that basically only exists as 30 year old Fuchs? Likely because that's what everyone had lying around which meant they didn't have to buy new wheels.
2. Exotic motors that cost more than my entire car in what's supposed to be a "cost controlled" class
3. The minimum weights are actually so low that it would be expensive to actually achieve them. My non-sunroof Euro SC is right around 2400 without me in it so hitting 2350 with me in it would require major work.


That's what the top CIS Euro SC motors make.

race911

Just pulling a couple of results at random from earlier this year showed Behram running basically 2:02 flat at Thunderhill. Eight years ago, when the car last ran, I was comfortably in the 2:05 range. Maybe I suck as a driver now, that's entirely possible my skills have deteriorated that much. (I can't break 2:00 with the faux 993RS, nor go sub-1:50 last I had the Radical out in '09.)

1. Because maybe they were only 11-12 years out of production when Rich came up with the outline for the class? Let's throw every car earlier than a 996 on the scrap heap for age, I suppose.

2. Gamroth has won with his "customer rental" 3.2L car. I fully realize it's not an as-delivered 3.2 engine. I'd wager there's not much on it that would be considered exotic. Built to the rules? Yes. Cheater? Absolutely not. Anyway, the class was never envisioned to be cost controlled. Simply look at car #2 or #3 that was built for the series--2.7L engines were allowed with any induction system. That meant Rich built the first cost-no-object car for Ben McGraw with Motec.