Streak

The "spec" nature of the series is one of the reasons I moved out of the "stock" and GTS classes. My tire budget, my largest expense by far, is 1/3 of what it used to be. That argument has been put to bed. Let's not reopen it.

As for 888 vs RA1 it should be driver's choice as long as it's a Toyo. I found RA1 and 888 to both be OK in the dry. 888 was very very bad in the wet. Hoosiers they are not but having run Hoos for years I was surprised the Toyos were as good as they were. All thing being equal, Boyer is only 1 second off the E class record with only the one race weekend at SP. On 888's.

Streak

I've not heard or had any issues there.

As J suggests, the SPB crowd should communicate. The best advocates are ourselves. If, for example, we decide to go to VIR with Nasa and we all talk before hand and agree we can run square staggered or whatever, the Nasa folks running the race are not going to turn us away. It's up to us and the rules will follow.

I'm not knocking Nasa. Our region, MA, is a blast. Chris has established a culture at his events that really makes the weekends fun. And the racing is great. His whole staff is part of it. I'm saying I really like going to Nasa race weekends as well as PCA and would like to see us work together at the racer level to sway things at the director level.

good hands

No dog in this fight but why would a " for profit " organization like NASA **** off any racers ? Seems like ego is getting in the way of common sense to me.

winders

Gary Willard has a PRC GTL car which is not a Spec 911. The GTL class, which is the same class my race car is built to, has limitations on engine size, intake, exhaust, and requires a certain tire. Other than that, it's an open GT class.

I bet his car cost a lot more than $75K to complete. I know mine did.

Isn't the Spec 911 class a nationwide PCA class now? When I said better option, I was not considering initial investment.

Scott

mooty

gary's car is way over 75k.
i looked into GTL. any GTL that i liked were 100k+
in fact, the spec 911's i liked are also over 100k, like the gray/yellow car. now that's a race car, or the blue car that VoB sr. drives.

BSR is cheap disposable compared to GTL and Spec 911.
maybe i should get another.

Scott, while IMS and engine and other parts may "die" in BSR, it's really cheap.
i lost a tranny, $3000 was all it took to get a junker box into my BSR. that's parts, labor and shipping.
engine, maybe <$4000.
they break, but they are cheap.
that keeps the group going.
i had 5 sets of wheels for my BSR. a set of used wheel is $500 (that's if you are stupid like me and overpaid).
i dont see many GTL/911 spec racers, even the super well funded have 5 sets of jong bloed wheels or god forbid, fuchs.

R888 is one of the main reason i got out of BSR. that tire should be outlawed. what a POS.

mooty

that's the way to do it.
and those POSS9 should go too.

onefastviking

Yeah, but NASA has Toyo sponsorship and thus Spec Toyo tires, and SCCA sure seems to support Hoosier by having open tire DOT classes, and Spec Hoosier tires in SM.
I'm thinking there is some money going somewhere to someone. But, that is the American way, so be it.

winders

I hear you. I just can't get excited about Boxsters. Great cars to be sure. But I started watching Porsche racing in the late '60's and loved going to Riverside to see all manner of 911 race cars. My Mom bought a 911 when I was 15 years old. It's a 911 for me....

Scott

M758

When running R888's on my 944 spec it was similar in that you really had to manage the tires.

The RA-1's on 944 spec cars lasted twice as long as the R888 even when the R888 was babied. Lap timed were at best a wash. You can push the RA-1 harder achieve similar lap times.

In my opinion a single spec tire is key to cost contained spec series. If that is the Toyo RA-1 then great. A cleaner series will have spec tire size an no options either, but sometimes a compromise must be made.

Anyway the class will do well on RA-1s Great tire... Sad how far off the mark the R888 was (still is).

Paul 996

Couldn't agree with you more. A spec series is a spec series. I don't want any driver choices on something as major as the tire. I will be pretty dissapointed if we roll into 2012 and PCA or NASA are wishy washy about moving wholeheartily to the RA1.

I would of course expect a phase out period for the R888 but not a general "either/or" language in the rules.

Clem

When are 2012 pca rules posted? Nov 1?

I am running an SPB - also in the "spec" camp, make a decision and be done with it.

That said, I would love to run R6s. Every car at a PCA race is on them but the SPBs.

Paul 996

Not trying to start something. But what is stopping you? Put an E on the side of your car and have at it.

Adam@Autometrics

I think the RA1 is the perfect tire for SPB; it is significantly better than the R888, in my experience. R6 fall off noticeably after around 6 cycles, where the RA1 do not show the same deterioration. It is absolutely reasonable to expect to win two weekends on a set of RA1. To win, you will need a new set of Hoosiers every weekend.
If I could modify any part of the current spec, it would be to add LSD. It is certainly debatable, but I feel like I'm always driving around an unnecessary limitation. That has not really been up for debate, so I hope that doesn't open a new can of worms.

eric523

I tried debating the LSD quite a bit this year to no avail. The slower cars don't feel they need it, which is understandable because they aren't driving hard enough to have to drive around it. I think the majority of the cars fall in that group, so the front runners have to do without. I've just elected to leave the class instead. To me, it sucks having built a great little car and platform that could be so much better with just a few minor changes.

M758

Interesting view point. 944 spec allowed limited slip diffs, but mostly because despite being rare they were factory options. There as been some heat tossed the way of the series directors over allowing LSD's. The issue was the cost of these items not being inline with budget class.

Alot of the spec boxster creators where either involved or very familiar with 944 spec. I believe cost is the reason they went away from allowing the LSDs. Interstingly way back in 2002 when 944 spec was created LSD were seen as important becuase we wanted to make sure the cars were also fun to drive as well as affordable. Cheap is nice, but if the car was a dog why bother? So that is one reason (along with it being a factory option) we allowed LSDs. Looking back we may have been better off not allowing them. Hmm... Seems like at least some in boxster world wish they had them for fun factor.