Nordschleife

One strategy would be to do the opposite to what most of the others are doing - so your fast guy (the gunner, in shearer speak) is making hay with the slow guys
and teach your slow guy how to drive a wide car

R+C

smarlow2

[So couple things to consider. Oh.. When I took over we were last in class, but solid runing and attrition move us up to 2nd in class by the finish. Doing well in an enduro is about staying out of trouble on track, in the pits and bringing the car to finish. Lots of other teams will get caught up in situations that prevent that.[/QUOTE]

Like having the winning team (that would be me) DQ'd because my knucklehead co-driver passed a lapped car under yellow.

MUSSBERGER

Put the slower more careful guy in first and let the laws of attrition come into play.

multi21

This makes a lot of sense. Reminds me of when I ran an Austrialian rules race in a 944 Spec and had to try try to slow down all the Cup cars behind me.

M758

Like having the winning team (that would be me) DQ'd because my knucklehead co-driver passed a lapped car under yellow.[/QUOTE]


That is the deal about endruos. It is so much more than just being fast. Your co driver was fast, but brain farted and well... you paid the price for it. The first goal in any enduro needs to be not break any of the rules. Doing so will always cost you more time than taking it bit more slowly. Heck I saw the same thing when I went to NASA Nationals in 2009. That was not an enduro, but the format mean that you could not make a mistake and expect to compete in the championship race. Fastest guy in thursday qualfying "forgot" to go to impound post qualifying. I have no doubt it was a brain fart not an attempt to decive, but his penalty was to start that qualfying race DFL. That is a big deal in 20 minutue race with 34 cars on track. Net result was mid pack finish which never allowed him to complete at front end main race. Then there were guys that made mistakes in the qualifying races. Some went off and lost alot of places other passed under yellow. Result for each of them was starting alot farther back for the championship race than their lap speed would normally indicate.

Then of course you same chassis (with the previous own driving) got nailed for a pass under yellow and took his solid finish and erased that. The guy that won that race was not the fastest, but kept his nose clean the entire weekend and with a little luck found himself in the right place at the right time to take the win.

So if you expect to do well in a spec class race you first need to cut out the mistakes. Sometimes the winner is not the fastest, but the guy that keep out of trouble and make the fewest mistakes.

Steve... may be you pull some off at East track in few weeks. You have been running pretty strong lately as it seems like the car is finally dialed in. Chances are very slim my car will be running by then and norm could be cruse mode since he may have locked up the season championship last weekend. I need to run the numbers to be sure however.

fatbillybob

What a great thread! I've never done an enduro. What can you guys say about car prep? How is a car's enduro prep differ from its' sprint prep for something like the a NASA 3hr. enduro? Is there a dominant enduro DOT race tire for example?

multi21

In 944 spec you have to run Toyo RA1. When I don't have to run RA1, I really like using Nitto NT-01 which from what I understand is the same compound, but different treat pattern (Larger blocks on the NT01)

d15b7

this may not be useful input, due to the fact that it is a Porsche you are racing (i'd guess from your pic?). but anyway -- I always got stuck drivinig third stint in a 6 hr race because I 'can make the most out of a car with no brakes left on it, and worn out tires'. we were racing an ITA Protege, and by the 4-5 hour mark, the brakes were always fried and the tires were shot. we never changed tires or brakes; our strategy was always to make as few short stops as possible (2 in a 6 hr race) and just keep going. so, in this case, i always got stuck on the last leg, cause i could turn faster laps than the other two guys with a used up car....

just food for thought.
Todd
ReidSpeed

multi21

Those are good points. The car in the avatar is a wish car. The actual car we're talking about is a 944 spec, so brakes last forever and it's easy on tires, but that is certainly a consideration on a long enduro and yet another variable in the equation of which driver goes where. In my case, since I haven't done an enduro before, it's hard to tell where my strengths lie.

Nordschleife

FatBillyBob (I do hope you are a cousin of JoBob)

As far as tyres are concerned, you must be the very best friend of the racing m,anager of your tyre supplier - so they support you with their best kit - that means triple stinting.

To make this work, all your drivers have to understand the principles of the high speed cruise and economy driving - don't ride the curbs, don't change down more gears than you need too, learn to corner on a trailing throttle. Drive like the Audi old guys, real fast but ekeing it out. Get in a rhythm and keep it going, don't be polite.

Pit stops really coist you - talk to the top guys in ALMS and ask the good ones how they manage their piut stops, get one of them to drill you in the right techniques.

Get a hot pit box at the end of the pits, this way as the driver comes into the pits, they can tell you what has to be done whilöst radios etc work.

Drill, drill, drill

R+C

multi21

A little caveat to those "variables".

So the team that qualified first, put their 2nd fastest driver for the 1st stint, their slowest driver in the middle and their fastest driver last just like several here said to do .

Hindsight is 20/20. What happened was the team that qualified 3rd put their fastest driver first, got out to a lead and buillt on that lead. They put their slowest driver 2nd and their 2nd fastest driver last and made it work as they won the race.

What the team that qualified first should have done is put their fastest driver 1st and built the lead and then the other drivers because once their fastest driver began the last stint, that fastest driver couldn't put in the fast laps he was capable of because he was dealing with lap traffic.

Great learning experience and definitely a chess game more than anything else.

disasterman

Maybe I missed it but how long was the race? What was the sanctioning body?

I am very curious because I just purchased a second race car specifically for endurance racing. I am currently reviewing schedules in Florida for January through March.

Thanks

By the way, my friends call me Jimmy Bobby!

M758

Interesting as most of the time you get more open space to run clear laps near the end of the race rather than the start. Usually at the end of the race there are less cars on track due to attrition and those that are running are easier to pass since some are just circulating. The starts tend to have more traffic due other cars inclass or more fast/slow cars circulating too. That has been the case for every enduro I have done in the last 10 years. That is not to say that you may end up catching traffic at bad spots or come out from a pit stop in mess of cars.

analogmike

I disagree, I think something else happened, it's still the best strategy to put the fastest guy in last. Building a lead usually does not help as caution periods will lose you all that time you gained.

multi21

As mentioned earlier in this thread, this was a charity event with "fun" being the goal. It wasn't the normal bang bang type of racing you can have, as a result, the racing was very clean. Perhaps more than a typical 1st stint would have.

However, except for the typical first couple of laps contact that is certainly possible for bringing out a caution, isn't the last stint equally as possible to experience a caution or two with:

1. Equipment failure - tires, brakes, engines, suspensions etc.

2. Driver failure -- brain fade - red mist

3. Attempts to pass off line in the marbles resulting in Offs?

?

What happened yesterday was indicative of what Robyn was saying in post #16