multi21

On a three driver team, is it typical to start the race with the guy that is 2nd in outright speed on that team, run the slowest guy in the middle stint and the fastest at the end like a relay race or something else?

What if the fastest driver is the least experienced, so you run the least experienced first and the 2nd fastest, but most experienced last?

Flying Finn

I'd run most experienced, 2nd fastest guy first as there are usually more cars and mayhem going on unless your on pole in which vase you can think of your fastest driver "disappearing" in which case him being the least experienced is not so much a risk and he can build a nice gap for the slower guys to rely on.
Then the slowest guy and save the least experienced, but fastest to the last but you might want to change that order after you see how the race is playing out.
So many variables that can happen even just at 1st couple of laps, your biggest competition might be out or lost bunch of laps etc.
Depending on what's going on, you might want to put the slowest guy in the end but just for a few laps. Or do that in the middle. What about yellow flags?

IMO even though you want to have a plan, it can't be fixed because of so many variables, at least hundreds of different scenarios and you need to be able to adapt.

Also, to give better answer, we need to know how long is the enduro? Are the tire changes?
Are you talking 6 hr Intercontinental race or PCA Club Race (or similar) 1.5 hr "enduro"?

I assumed 1.5 hr enduro in which case I don't see why would you even have 3 driver unless there are two mandatory pit stops, then it might be ok.

paradisenb

Pete, I guess you are running a 3 hr NASA event. If you qualify at the front, I would put the faster, least experienced driver first and hope he can gap the field. If you are mid-pack, put a more experienced driver, assuming he can make up some posistions and keep out of trouble. Close with you best racer.

multi21

Thanks guys. It's a mandatory 2 stop race, fuel only and driver changes, no tires. It's a fun race for charity, where every driver has to drive an equal time. I've never run an enduro, so I wanted to get others opinions.

Based on the race line up, I'm going to assume we qualify somewhere midpack.

15 car field

M758

How long is the enduro and what is the likelhood of a full course yellow? Do you have outright speed to win the class with even the best driver?

Can you actually run fast laps at the start of the race? Or will traffic and being heavy on fuel make the car slow. Can you run flatout the entire race or will you need to back off and perserve the car?

Alot of this on "it depends". If you expect a FCY sometime and have long track where even the slowest will not lose a lap then running a slow guy early may not hurt you. If you expect to nurse the car to finish you need the most gentle and experienced guy last to make sure car can finish. If you need go flat out all the time time then maybe the fast guy first. Slow in the middle when there is less traffic and fast and experinecd at then to possibly make up spots.

Flying Finn

OK, then I'd go as I first suggested, most experienced, 2nd fastest guy first. Then the slowest guy and then for the last stint, you...

But at the mid way through the 1st stint, you need to look closely what's happening because it might be better to put the fastest guy out there when there are still good grip left (see, another question, what kind of tires are you running, will they last the whole 3 hrs?) to get ahead of someone.

MJR911

FWIW, In Conti Grand-Am ... the slowest guy (also usually the one paying the bills) starts and the "pro" finishes. 2 driver races.

multi21

You can't predict a full course yellow, but I'm assuming you're going to see one for an incident at some point.

Based on the experience of 2 of our 3 drivers (no enduro experience), I don't think we have the outright speed to win it all. We want to try it because it's different, it's for fun and charity with a look at doing some next year with this serving as a learning experience.

As an aside, I think I want to do a karting enduro with my daughter next year as one of 4 drivers. There is a 4 hour enduro and a 12 hour enduro. Weight is a factor with a minimum being needed, BUT, you can average the weight over the 4 drivers. In that case, me being over 200 lbs. and her being 110, I'm thinking we put one of the 150-170 lbs karters first, me in the middle as I'll probably run the slowest and her as the last driver as she will probably be the lightest and fastest. Does that make sense to you guys?

Cory M

is there a requirement that the qualifying driver start the race?

I agree with Finn that you might not want a driver with little experience starting the race, he might get mobbed at the start and it will be hard to earn those positions back, especially if he lacks racecraft or the ability to set up passes. Usually things get really spread out as the race progresses and the end of the race would be the best time for your fast but inexperienced driver to get in hot laps.

If the pit stops aren't timed make sure you pratice the driver changes and do whatever you can to speed up the fueling as much as possible.

multi21

No requirement about starting the qualifying driver.

Okay, so what I'm hearing from you guys is have our fastest guy, but not the most experienced, qualify, but have the 2nd fastest guy on the team and the one with the most experienced start the race, slowest guy in the middle and hopefully everything is stretched out and not as compact as the start and finally the least experienced guy, but fastest qualifying try to put in fast lap after fast lap on a track this is hopefully strung out.

gums

We usually put the car owner in first. In this way, he is sure to get his time, and that's the most hectic and risky segment.

Seth Thomas

Correct in your statement but that is for a different reason. The main reason this happens is because for either driver to score points they both have to drive for a minimum of 30 minutes. So if the Non-Pro starts, drives for 30, hands the car over to the Pro, he drives for 25 minutes and the car breaks/crashes/Kyle Busches/etc, then only the Non-Pro gets the points. The goal is to make it so both drivers score points when both are going for a championship.

M758

The start of the race will require experience to negociate effectivly. It is a long race and no need take risks or beat-up the car. So a solid driver with good experice can bring the car in good position and shape for first hour our so. There will be the most traffic then too. Middle stint should the slow guy as by then traffic should have thinned out and he/she can turn laps. Last stint is where you will need to try to make up time to possibly win.

The only exception would be that at the end of the race the tires will be hot and brake pedal long. It may not handle well or it may be making odd noises. The risk with the fast guy with less experience last is the he may not be good a driving car in bad shape. I did a 3 hr enduro where I shared the car with one other driver. We had front brake issues and in the first hour the car owner stopped twice. Once to change left front tire due exceessive flat spotting and then once again on our actual pit window. We did the driver change and we changed the tire again. Of course part of the problem was we were using garbage tires, but the basic problem I believe was too much front roll stiffness (sway bar) causing lock up on the inside front tire. I took over the car knowing the issue, but not knowing it was due to sway bar. So nursed the car on that same tire for the remaining two hours. It was hard to make good lap time and keep from locking up that tire. Even so I could do it most of the time where as the car owner tended to do it every lap. So by the end of the race I hard badly flat spotted left front with horrible high speed vibration. Wining was pretty much out of the cards due to extra pit stop and due to longer stop for the tire change. Still finished 3rd in class by staying on track and nursing the car around. That is where experience comes in and in a 3hr race a good finish can be had by simply staying on track and turning laps. A fast inexperinced driver may not be any good at nursing an imperfect car around the track. He or she may stick the car in the dirt, pull off being scared to drive it, drive it very slow because it is not right or simply break the car.

M758

And.. There is nearly always a FCY early in the race to erase much of the time gap if the car is still on the lead lap. Plus in 2hr 45 min race keeing the lesser driver to have less time on track will tend to improve overall position.

In club level enduros there are different factors. Just last weekend I did a short enduro. I was the faster driver, but not the car owner. Given his pace and the competitiion I knew we would never compete for a win. So I gave all options on driver order to him to choose. He decided to let me qualify the car to get seat time it. I qualfied at a 1:09.5 and his race laps were in the 1:12's. I then had him start the race for two reasons.

1) His car and he should get to drive it first. Should it fail I would feel better with him in car having raced some
2) Driver size. He is shorter then me and for a driver change he could unbelt and go over do the fueling. Rules required us to add 5 gallons. The fuel can was his so he knew how it filled his car. I have found that in club level enduro a 3rd person drafte for fuel duty is often slower than the car owner due not being familier with the fuel can etc. Since we fuel our own cars in the pits all the time we know how to full our car with our own cans fast.

The other deal was the with dirver size I could hop in side the seat back and pull his seat pads. Doing this mean the belts were loose for me even when he never loosened them. So that saved time on driver change. I practiced 2-3 times on the change and this worked out like a charm. My no rush change was done at the same time the fueling was done.


So couple things to consider. Oh.. When I took over we were last in class, but solid runing and attrition move us up to 2nd in class by the finish. Doing well in an enduro is about staying out of trouble on track, in the pits and bringing the car to finish. Lots of other teams will get caught up in situations that prevent that.

Flying Finn

That's the plan, what actually happens can be a different thing!