Had some fun with Hill Country PCA at TWS this weekend
11-03-2011, 03:43 PM
#33
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Nope. Stock unmodified motor, minus catalysts, with a better air intake & exhaust. Mild tune. 93 octane fuel. Stock was 240 crank HP, I am guessing mine is making about 250-255 crank HP, no clue whet that means to the wheels.
To Hugh's credit, as he indicates above, he needed to have his crew install fresh rubber in order to drive flat out.
To Hugh's credit, as he indicates above, he needed to have his crew install fresh rubber in order to drive flat out.
Michael bring your Radical and prove us wrong. I'll give you some credit if you hit sub 1.40's which shouldn't be too difficult with your skill level? When you drove your Targa, I didn't witness any record breaking lap times. Please remember, Dave's camera was set back inside the vehicle and not over each wheel arch or on the front bumper, so the view is skewed, just like a backseat driver.
As to my car, tires gone beyond their useful life, could not get the power down, plus I had a passenger, and yes I drive some unconventional lines or do we have drive the approved Michael Paton line all the time?
As to my car, tires gone beyond their useful life, could not get the power down, plus I had a passenger, and yes I drive some unconventional lines or do we have drive the approved Michael Paton line all the time?
I know you explore unconventional lines; I've commended you for it in the past. Not enough people do that.
The Radical only has a nominal 200HP and doesn't go very fast down the straights, so I don't believe an SR3 1300 in anybody's hands is going to be doing 1:40s at TWS. Now an SR8 might be another story.
Additionally I don't run the SR3 on slicks at DEs. My choice, but slicks cost more, take more laps to warm up, have fewer heat cycles in them, and 2G cornering just doesn't fit well in the DE environment. 1.6G with R888s with 70+ heat cycles on them works fine for me.
My 911 wasn't a Targa, just a plain 02 C2. I have no records of lap times from back then. I never claimed any records and I don't think it likely that many are set at DEs.
As you can tell, and despite the fact that my competition career ended in 1978, I still know some creative excuses. Let me know if you ever need any.
But on a more serious note, I think for those of us not racing, the challenge of DE or track driving is to get the most out of whatever vehicle you drive, in whatever state it's in that day. In my mind, I got pretty much everything out of my 02 C2 the way it was set up. The Radical raises the bar, and gives me the new challenges I wanted. I don't get as much out of it as I did from the C2, but I enjoy the challenge. Maybe it's the same for you between your C4S and the latest GT3.
11-03-2011, 04:01 PM
#34
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But on a more serious note, I think for those of us not racing, the challenge of DE or track driving is to get the most out of whatever vehicle you drive
I find it amusing (actually funny as hell) that depending on audience the purpose of DE events varies.
Broadly...
I find it amusing (actually funny as hell) that depending on audience the purpose of DE events varies.
Broadly...
11-03-2011, 08:54 PM
#35
I don't need to prove you wrong, I was just helping you out with some better excuses than needing fresher tires. Hence all the smileys. I guess they didn't work.
I know you explore unconventional lines; I've commended you for it in the past. Not enough people do that.
The Radical only has a nominal 200HP and doesn't go very fast down the straights, so I don't believe an SR3 1300 in anybody's hands is going to be doing 1:40s at TWS. Now an SR8 might be another story.
Additionally I don't run the SR3 on slicks at DEs. My choice, but slicks cost more, take more laps to warm up, have fewer heat cycles in them, and 2G cornering just doesn't fit well in the DE environment. 1.6G with R888s with 70+ heat cycles on them works fine for me.
My 911 wasn't a Targa, just a plain 02 C2. I have no records of lap times from back then. I never claimed any records and I don't think it likely that many are set at DEs.
As you can tell, and despite the fact that my competition career ended in 1978, I still know some creative excuses. Let me know if you ever need any.
But on a more serious note, I think for those of us not racing, the challenge of DE or track driving is to get the most out of whatever vehicle you drive, in whatever state it's in that day. In my mind, I got pretty much everything out of my 02 C2 the way it was set up. The Radical raises the bar, and gives me the new challenges I wanted. I don't get as much out of it as I did from the C2, but I enjoy the challenge. Maybe it's the same for you between your C4S and the latest GT3.
I know you explore unconventional lines; I've commended you for it in the past. Not enough people do that.
The Radical only has a nominal 200HP and doesn't go very fast down the straights, so I don't believe an SR3 1300 in anybody's hands is going to be doing 1:40s at TWS. Now an SR8 might be another story.
Additionally I don't run the SR3 on slicks at DEs. My choice, but slicks cost more, take more laps to warm up, have fewer heat cycles in them, and 2G cornering just doesn't fit well in the DE environment. 1.6G with R888s with 70+ heat cycles on them works fine for me.
My 911 wasn't a Targa, just a plain 02 C2. I have no records of lap times from back then. I never claimed any records and I don't think it likely that many are set at DEs.
As you can tell, and despite the fact that my competition career ended in 1978, I still know some creative excuses. Let me know if you ever need any.
But on a more serious note, I think for those of us not racing, the challenge of DE or track driving is to get the most out of whatever vehicle you drive, in whatever state it's in that day. In my mind, I got pretty much everything out of my 02 C2 the way it was set up. The Radical raises the bar, and gives me the new challenges I wanted. I don't get as much out of it as I did from the C2, but I enjoy the challenge. Maybe it's the same for you between your C4S and the latest GT3.
By my calculations a GT3 is somewhere around a 8.4 ratio while a SR3 is around 5.15 ratio, all I can say is wow ! An SR3 should be lapping GT3's in a DE session based on that hp to weight ratio difference.
Here is Eric Purcell at TWS,
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showru...054&perclass=1
yes Michael it's an SR3 at TWS 2.9 doing a 1:46.9
While Eric is a good driver I believe that he and the car can both do better than the 1:46. For him that won the overall race with room to spare with a very competent driver in a F430 Challenge car coming in 2nd way behind him.
DE's are different things for different people, I don't knock anyone's happy place, whatever works for you is great. Let's all just get along and have a fun time doing it.
11-04-2011, 12:22 AM
#36
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Good times at TWS this past weekend. Incredible weather and great company. Thanks VR for sharing your video, just out of curiosity, what was the flashing light on one of the gauges? Also, are those straight cut gears or the diff going bad?
Admittedly a bit biased with around 2100 lbs car with w/o driver (should cross the scales at 2275 in full race trim with driver at the end of the race) and only around 110 HP at the wheels, but it is a lot of fun to drive a slow car fast (at its potential). In practicing for the next SCCA race at TWS, was doing some high 2:01s and low 2:02s. If the weather is similar during the enduro, should be a lot of fun.
Admittedly a bit biased with around 2100 lbs car with w/o driver (should cross the scales at 2275 in full race trim with driver at the end of the race) and only around 110 HP at the wheels, but it is a lot of fun to drive a slow car fast (at its potential). In practicing for the next SCCA race at TWS, was doing some high 2:01s and low 2:02s. If the weather is similar during the enduro, should be a lot of fun.
11-04-2011, 12:38 AM
#37
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By my calculations a GT3 is somewhere around a 8.4 ratio while a SR3 is around 5.15 ratio, all I can say is wow ! An SR3 should be lapping GT3's in a DE session based on that hp to weight ratio difference.
Here is Eric Purcell at TWS,
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showru...054&perclass=1
yes Michael it's an SR3 at TWS 2.9 doing a 1:46.9
While Eric is a good driver I believe that he and the car can both do better than the 1:46. For him that won the overall race with room to spare with a very competent driver in a F430 Challenge car coming in 2nd way behind him.
DE's are different things for different people, I don't knock anyone's happy place, whatever works for you is great. Let's all just get along and have a fun time doing it.
Here is Eric Purcell at TWS,
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showru...054&perclass=1
yes Michael it's an SR3 at TWS 2.9 doing a 1:46.9
While Eric is a good driver I believe that he and the car can both do better than the 1:46. For him that won the overall race with room to spare with a very competent driver in a F430 Challenge car coming in 2nd way behind him.
DE's are different things for different people, I don't knock anyone's happy place, whatever works for you is great. Let's all just get along and have a fun time doing it.
But as I do like your numbers, I'd like to review them a little.
From the PCA racing web site, I get
2010 911 GT3 3225# 435 HP
From the Radical Website I get
New SR3 570Kg = 1254 lbs 210 HP
Let's take the same weight for my older one, and the 208 HP it's supposed to have (which they admit includes 10% for ram air effect).
I think these are both dry weights, so let's give each car 10 gals of gas making 60# and lets give the GT3 about 140# of driver and the SR3 gets, ummmmm 230# :-(
So that makes 3425#/435HP or 7.87 Lbs/HP for the GT3 and 1644#/208HP = 7.90 for the SR3.
That similarity seems about right to me, from the few occasions when GT3s and Radicals have passed each other without significant initial speed advantage.
I not only found the lap time of Eric's that you posted, but another from 2009 where he's done TWS CCW in 1:44.609. So that's fast, but not the sub 1:40s required to impress Hugh.
I don't know what engine Eric's has (although I'll probably give him a call and ask him, as he's only a few miles from where I'm working at the moment). SR3s usually have from 1300 to 1500cc engines, with 1400 being a common inexpensive upgrade when refresh time comes around.
As I'm still learning the aero car differences I still have more rear downforce than I need, and that does
limit the straight line speed, which is a significant component of a TWS lap time.
How did you come by the 5.15 ratio?
11-04-2011, 01:04 AM
#38
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Good times at TWS this past weekend. Incredible weather and great company. Thanks VR for sharing your video, just out of curiosity, what was the flashing light on one of the gauges? Also, are those straight cut gears or the diff going bad?
Admittedly a bit biased with around 2100 lbs car with w/o driver (should cross the scales at 2275 in full race trim with driver at the end of the race) and only around 110 HP at the wheels, but it is a lot of fun to drive a slow car fast (at its potential). In practicing for the next SCCA race at TWS, was doing some high 2:01s and low 2:02s. If the weather is similar during the enduro, should be a lot of fun.
Admittedly a bit biased with around 2100 lbs car with w/o driver (should cross the scales at 2275 in full race trim with driver at the end of the race) and only around 110 HP at the wheels, but it is a lot of fun to drive a slow car fast (at its potential). In practicing for the next SCCA race at TWS, was doing some high 2:01s and low 2:02s. If the weather is similar during the enduro, should be a lot of fun.
And yes my diff needs a rebuild.
Standard BMW transmission in the car, no fancy gears.
11-04-2011, 01:32 AM
#39
Good info Viking. I'm not knocking any happy places, and I think we are getting along and having a fun time with it.
But as I do like your numbers, I'd like to review them a little.
From the PCA racing web site, I get
2010 911 GT3 3225# 435 HP
From the Radical Website I get
New SR3 570Kg = 1254 lbs 210 HP
Let's take the same weight for my older one, and the 208 HP it's supposed to have (which they admit includes 10% for ram air effect).
I think these are both dry weights, so let's give each car 10 gals of gas making 60# and lets give the GT3 about 140# of driver and the SR3 gets, ummmmm 230# :-(
So that makes 3425#/435HP or 7.87 Lbs/HP for the GT3 and 1644#/208HP = 7.90 for the SR3.
That similarity seems about right to me, from the few occasions when GT3s and Radicals have passed each other without significant initial speed advantage.
I not only found the lap time of Eric's that you posted, but another from 2009 where he's done TWS CCW in 1:44.609. So that's fast, but not the sub 1:40s required to impress Hugh.
I don't know what engine Eric's has (although I'll probably give him a call and ask him, as he's only a few miles from where I'm working at the moment). SR3s usually have from 1300 to 1500cc engines, with 1400 being a common inexpensive upgrade when refresh time comes around.
As I'm still learning the aero car differences I still have more rear downforce than I need, and that does
limit the straight line speed, which is a significant component of a TWS lap time.
How did you come by the 5.15 ratio?
But as I do like your numbers, I'd like to review them a little.
From the PCA racing web site, I get
2010 911 GT3 3225# 435 HP
From the Radical Website I get
New SR3 570Kg = 1254 lbs 210 HP
Let's take the same weight for my older one, and the 208 HP it's supposed to have (which they admit includes 10% for ram air effect).
I think these are both dry weights, so let's give each car 10 gals of gas making 60# and lets give the GT3 about 140# of driver and the SR3 gets, ummmmm 230# :-(
So that makes 3425#/435HP or 7.87 Lbs/HP for the GT3 and 1644#/208HP = 7.90 for the SR3.
That similarity seems about right to me, from the few occasions when GT3s and Radicals have passed each other without significant initial speed advantage.
I not only found the lap time of Eric's that you posted, but another from 2009 where he's done TWS CCW in 1:44.609. So that's fast, but not the sub 1:40s required to impress Hugh.
I don't know what engine Eric's has (although I'll probably give him a call and ask him, as he's only a few miles from where I'm working at the moment). SR3s usually have from 1300 to 1500cc engines, with 1400 being a common inexpensive upgrade when refresh time comes around.
As I'm still learning the aero car differences I still have more rear downforce than I need, and that does
limit the straight line speed, which is a significant component of a TWS lap time.
How did you come by the 5.15 ratio?
For the GT3 I tried to calculate in the weight including driver/passenger that I knew were in the car and approximated. Same for the SR3,guessing at your weight also, but I used a 250 hp number that I had remembered for the 1400 motor, with the 210hp motor based on the weight on the site its at 6.51, for the 275hp motor it drops below 5.
Accounting for a better driver than either you or Eric, the sequential box, the down force working properly, slicks,proper set up, proper choice of gears for the track and I think in the 1:40's at TWS could happen. Regardless, the Radical should be dusting off almost all comers at any racetrack given those qualities that it has, especially a little old street driven car with license plates.
As I said before, DE's are not the place to prove or decide anything tho, and the GT3, the Radical, and even Dave's M3 are all very respectable cars in their own right.
BTW - any sub 1:45 at TWS impresses me regardless of the car, I've been there and know what it takes to do it.
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11-04-2011, 01:35 AM
#40
Oh, and I'm surprised that diff has lasted so long with that noise. Of course everyone says the same about my loud truck
I guess we both have to get those noises fixed.
11-04-2011, 09:13 AM
#41
The Penguin King
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11-04-2011, 09:26 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Oh, and I'm surprised that diff has lasted so long with that noise. Of course everyone says the same about my loud truck
I guess we both have to get those noises fixed.
I guess we both have to get those noises fixed.
11-04-2011, 11:07 AM
#43
Preventative maintenance usually saves you money, I think a rebuild/refresh would be a good idea. It might even save you a diff case.
