DE Lines vs Racing Lines
10-18-2011, 05:27 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
DE Lines vs Racing Lines
I've been doing DE's and ChumpCars for about a year now.
just had an interesting conversation with a fellow race team member.
We both have observed that running a clean DE line damn near
gets us wiped off the track by extremely late breakers into tighter turns.
Especially late Apexes.
We both are decent drivers relative to our respective experience.
We also have learned to do a a measured glance in the rear view
coming into such turns.
When it's obvious to us that someones coming up -- we give the space.
However we have found it quite surprising just how often (and how late) that during
late apex corners that folks dive into the inside line and expect
you to know they are there and suddenly "rubbing is racing" comes into play.
We're trying to figure if that's just how its going to be and either completely
give the line, alter our entry if it even looks like someone might dive in (seems like blocking to us), or what?
I think this is more difficult for us because we drive a 924S which is a momentum car and we need to keep the speed (and thus use the
track) for being any bit competitive on the track.
In the end -- we're endurance racing and would prefer to just preserve the car.
However, it does get quite annoying getting dive bombed and either expected to acquiesce or lend them our fenders and 4 wheels to help slow them down.
We both do a good bit of DEs (PCA and others) on the tracks we run to learn the track and learn the lines.
thanks,
Mike
just had an interesting conversation with a fellow race team member.
We both have observed that running a clean DE line damn near
gets us wiped off the track by extremely late breakers into tighter turns.
Especially late Apexes.
We both are decent drivers relative to our respective experience.
We also have learned to do a a measured glance in the rear view
coming into such turns.
When it's obvious to us that someones coming up -- we give the space.
However we have found it quite surprising just how often (and how late) that during
late apex corners that folks dive into the inside line and expect
you to know they are there and suddenly "rubbing is racing" comes into play.
We're trying to figure if that's just how its going to be and either completely
give the line, alter our entry if it even looks like someone might dive in (seems like blocking to us), or what?
I think this is more difficult for us because we drive a 924S which is a momentum car and we need to keep the speed (and thus use the
track) for being any bit competitive on the track.
In the end -- we're endurance racing and would prefer to just preserve the car.
However, it does get quite annoying getting dive bombed and either expected to acquiesce or lend them our fenders and 4 wheels to help slow them down.
We both do a good bit of DEs (PCA and others) on the tracks we run to learn the track and learn the lines.
thanks,
Mike
10-18-2011, 05:43 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
I've been doing DE's and ChumpCars for about a year now.
just had an interesting conversation with a fellow race team member.
We both have observed that running a clean DE line damn near
gets us wiped off the track by extremely late breakers into tighter turns.
Especially late Apexes.
We both are decent drivers relative to our respective experience.
We also have learned to do a a measured glance in the rear view
coming into such turns.
When it's obvious to us that someones coming up -- we give the space.
However we have found it quite surprising just how often (and how late) that during
late apex corners that folks dive into the inside line and expect
you to know they are there and suddenly "rubbing is racing" comes into play.
We're trying to figure if that's just how its going to be and either completely
give the line, alter our entry if it even looks like someone might dive in (seems like blocking to us), or what?
I think this is more difficult for us because we drive a 924S which is a momentum car and we need to keep the speed (and thus use the
track) for being any bit competitive on the track.
In the end -- we're endurance racing and would prefer to just preserve the car.
However, it does get quite annoying getting dive bombed and either expected to acquiesce or lend them our fenders and 4 wheels to help slow them down.
We both do a good bit of DEs (PCA and others) on the tracks we run to learn the track and learn the lines.
thanks,
Mike
just had an interesting conversation with a fellow race team member.
We both have observed that running a clean DE line damn near
gets us wiped off the track by extremely late breakers into tighter turns.
Especially late Apexes.
We both are decent drivers relative to our respective experience.
We also have learned to do a a measured glance in the rear view
coming into such turns.
When it's obvious to us that someones coming up -- we give the space.
However we have found it quite surprising just how often (and how late) that during
late apex corners that folks dive into the inside line and expect
you to know they are there and suddenly "rubbing is racing" comes into play.
We're trying to figure if that's just how its going to be and either completely
give the line, alter our entry if it even looks like someone might dive in (seems like blocking to us), or what?
I think this is more difficult for us because we drive a 924S which is a momentum car and we need to keep the speed (and thus use the
track) for being any bit competitive on the track.
In the end -- we're endurance racing and would prefer to just preserve the car.
However, it does get quite annoying getting dive bombed and either expected to acquiesce or lend them our fenders and 4 wheels to help slow them down.
We both do a good bit of DEs (PCA and others) on the tracks we run to learn the track and learn the lines.
thanks,
Mike
10-18-2011, 05:48 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
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You don't have to drive a defensive line all the time - get to know where the other car is close and can dive bomb - then drive it defensively there. Other corners your car maybe better and will not have the concern as the passing car cannot get inside anyway.
Another thought is if they are behind you...well they are likely faster than you. Sometimes it is wise to let them by anyway.
Another thought is if they are behind you...well they are likely faster than you. Sometimes it is wise to let them by anyway.
10-18-2011, 05:51 PM
#4
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There is a difference between blocking and driving a defensive line. Blocking is crap. Driving a defensive line is racing. You need to find out exactly how wide your car is.
10-18-2011, 06:07 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
There are fast lines and slow lines. There is no "racing line".
Get a coach to help you figure out some faster lines that won't get you passed.
Get a coach to help you figure out some faster lines that won't get you passed.
10-18-2011, 06:08 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Learn to enter the corners faster and you will avoid most of the dive bombs. Late apexes will get you passed all day long. Unfortunately, teaching a late apex is preferable for new drivers.
10-18-2011, 06:16 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
+1 to Matt's comment. You are ahead and are allowed to drive your line - in the middle of the track if you so wish. Weaving and blocking is a no-no, driving to defend your line is racing. I am on a Lemons team and we have a 944 with the some of the same issues you mention. I have found this method works pretty well, when a faster car is coming up and it appears they are going to "dive-in" I pick my line and give a car width between me and the apex. Good drivers go right on by and we both maintain good speed through the corner, drivers who are just trying to be aggressive and see if they can force you out of the way, check up. The best part is the next time either of these types of drivers is trying to get by again, they already know what to expect. I recommend being consistent in whatever manuever you choose though.
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10-18-2011, 06:47 PM
#8
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You have to adjust for whatever type of race you're running. Like you said, you're endurance racing and I'm sure that 90% of the time, the guys passing you are generally faster anyway so you've really lost little in an endurance race. In a sprint race, however, every second counts and you have to measure giving room against giving away time in your "momentum" car and adjust your line accordingly. You're not facing anything that anyone else on here hasn't faced....
10-18-2011, 06:55 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
if you know a car is faster than you, let them pass you on the straight. do not wait until the corner. that's the only way you will be able to keep up your momentum and minimize your loss of speed.
10-18-2011, 07:55 PM
#10
What do you do in regards to braking when you are being pressed by another driver? Do you trail brake a little more or brake the same?
Scott
10-18-2011, 07:58 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
I see we're heading back to "bending the car" into the corner....Easier said than done - at least for me.
10-18-2011, 08:13 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
10-18-2011, 08:30 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
10-18-2011, 08:33 PM
#14
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There is also a difference between a defensive line and just maintaining your fastest line. When being overtaken by a faster class car, the objective should be to hinder him the least while maximizing your speed and the risk to both of you. To optimize that for both parties takes quite a bit of awareness and thought on both drivers part in a very short period of time and is a learned skill like all others. That's why it's so advantageous to know the people that you are racing with / against.
10-18-2011, 08:41 PM
#15
Race Director
You haven't been passed until they are more than next to you. Until then you race for position. 
I drove a momentum endurance race car (JTCC) in the same race as 700 hp 911's and 996 Cup cars. In some corners I had to back off to avoid rear ending them, simply because they thought they could pass everywhere with power and grip.
Truth is that breaking and turn in points often are close because of the slower momentum car has different dynamics and is easier to balance.
It took a few hours to learn that the only safe way to be passed is to run our race and not help the faster car drivers. They expect you to race and will pass if fasters, if you balloon your way around a corner chances are you will run them off the track by cutting in sharp after a late apex.
Late apexing is great for safety when alone and roll time around the bends, but it will increase brake wear and turn slower lap times.
There is a reason why racers have a hard time going back to DE.
I drove a momentum endurance race car (JTCC) in the same race as 700 hp 911's and 996 Cup cars. In some corners I had to back off to avoid rear ending them, simply because they thought they could pass everywhere with power and grip.
Truth is that breaking and turn in points often are close because of the slower momentum car has different dynamics and is easier to balance.
It took a few hours to learn that the only safe way to be passed is to run our race and not help the faster car drivers. They expect you to race and will pass if fasters, if you balloon your way around a corner chances are you will run them off the track by cutting in sharp after a late apex.
Late apexing is great for safety when alone and roll time around the bends, but it will increase brake wear and turn slower lap times.
There is a reason why racers have a hard time going back to DE.