PORSCHE-BEST RACING CAR IN HISTORY?
10-19-2011, 09:48 PM
#31
Mazda gives more support to club racers and to other groups because the cars are relatively cheap to own and race compared to a Porsche. The shear number of Mazda's sold compared to Porsche's also gives them the bank account to support smaller race teams and promote there brand. Porsches are expensive to race and buy compared to a new Miata.
Tom Burdge thank you for also agreeing with me about the 914's history they have been such successful platforms for racing. I love how Porsche loves to tout that the production value of their mid engine boxster and cayman, and how they come from the 550 spyder and not the 914. Porsche loves to forget the red headed step childs.
Tom Burdge thank you for also agreeing with me about the 914's history they have been such successful platforms for racing. I love how Porsche loves to tout that the production value of their mid engine boxster and cayman, and how they come from the 550 spyder and not the 914. Porsche loves to forget the red headed step childs.
10-20-2011, 02:22 AM
#32
Late Porkchops
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Porsche may have been the "best" but I am not so sure it is a title to which they are current , and that they may not hold in the future. Sure you can look back 30 years , but pretty soon that does not hold water if you arent winning now.
There are quite a few things that Porsche could do at the club and other levels. They just dont do it. Same in their production road cars.
Look at Datsun and Nissan. Datsun got a lot of the name of the marque through its racing. They backed it up with reasonable cars in the showroom. It all dwindled, Of course the car became more and more of a luxury car and the price followed until eventually they sold only a couple of thousand 300's and the party was over. Then , what maybe 10 years later , they return with one of what brought them like the 350 and 370's. But by then the dealers were to pushing the $40,000 Maxima, or a $30,000 Altima or whatever.
I watched the Pirelli race the other day and there was one 370 Nismo in the field. What a pitiful effort. Sure a Porsche won on that track. But there was much much more effort from Ford and even from Acura.
Sure there are always a handful of the most upscale buyers for something like the GT3. I am glad. But my dealer here in Houston says that without the Cayenne and the Panamera they would not have the lights on to sell the other cars when a buyer for one of the cars shows up. There are only 4 million folks here in the area.
Porsche better think about breathing some life into this one day soon or some other manufacturer will, like Hyundai maybe. Porsche made some money on currency swaps, on shorting VW shares, and on selling to the Mid East and China. But they might have to get busy again yet as the base is not what it was.
There are quite a few things that Porsche could do at the club and other levels. They just dont do it. Same in their production road cars.
Look at Datsun and Nissan. Datsun got a lot of the name of the marque through its racing. They backed it up with reasonable cars in the showroom. It all dwindled, Of course the car became more and more of a luxury car and the price followed until eventually they sold only a couple of thousand 300's and the party was over. Then , what maybe 10 years later , they return with one of what brought them like the 350 and 370's. But by then the dealers were to pushing the $40,000 Maxima, or a $30,000 Altima or whatever.
I watched the Pirelli race the other day and there was one 370 Nismo in the field. What a pitiful effort. Sure a Porsche won on that track. But there was much much more effort from Ford and even from Acura.
Sure there are always a handful of the most upscale buyers for something like the GT3. I am glad. But my dealer here in Houston says that without the Cayenne and the Panamera they would not have the lights on to sell the other cars when a buyer for one of the cars shows up. There are only 4 million folks here in the area.
Porsche better think about breathing some life into this one day soon or some other manufacturer will, like Hyundai maybe. Porsche made some money on currency swaps, on shorting VW shares, and on selling to the Mid East and China. But they might have to get busy again yet as the base is not what it was.
Last edited by TexasRider; 10-20-2011 at 02:39 AM.
10-20-2011, 07:11 AM
#33
they accumulated VW stake synthetically through OTC calls few knew about but then got killed once all revealed.... +1 on the base not what it was.
10-20-2011, 03:27 PM
#34
Late Porkchops
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Their move was likely more political in nature but if they had some puts in there and I think I remember they cash settled the shorters. Maybe it was profit, and if it is profit ok with me.
But my larger point is that while all of that is a corporate thing, they still arent making the money selling the cars. I realize it is a tough market, but I still say they are losing focus and base.
If not for the Cayenne there might not be any Porsche now. A sombering thought really. While I am glad the Cayenne is there, it speaks as to what is going on in the sports car line of Porsche.
But my larger point is that while all of that is a corporate thing, they still arent making the money selling the cars. I realize it is a tough market, but I still say they are losing focus and base.
If not for the Cayenne there might not be any Porsche now. A sombering thought really. While I am glad the Cayenne is there, it speaks as to what is going on in the sports car line of Porsche.
10-20-2011, 05:37 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Their move was likely more political in nature but if they had some puts in there and I think I remember they cash settled the shorters. Maybe it was profit, and if it is profit ok with me.
But my larger point is that while all of that is a corporate thing, they still arent making the money selling the cars. I realize it is a tough market, but I still say they are losing focus and base.
If not for the Cayenne there might not be any Porsche now. A sombering thought really. While I am glad the Cayenne is there, it speaks as to what is going on in the sports car line of Porsche.
But my larger point is that while all of that is a corporate thing, they still arent making the money selling the cars. I realize it is a tough market, but I still say they are losing focus and base.
If not for the Cayenne there might not be any Porsche now. A sombering thought really. While I am glad the Cayenne is there, it speaks as to what is going on in the sports car line of Porsche.
I don't work for Porsche,even though I guess that would be a dream job,but I think they had to adapt to current conditions. For example,who would've thought 10 years ago,when the Japaneese were starting to brag about their future hybrid cars,that Porsche will follow.... But they had no choice and I believe that Porsche's technology will lead the hybrid racing market.Just look at the GT3 R Hybrid,this car was just a few hours from winning the 24 hours Nurburgring,after leading for hours without a problem,just an unfortunate malfunction made it abandon the race.
Also the 918 Spyder is looking like a masterpiece.
So I believe that Porsche will continue being in the lead for many years to come,the only thing is that the competitors are getting tougher and tougher and Porsche will have to step up their game.
11-25-2011, 10:12 AM
#38
teeners get no respect
I think that the 914's more than hold their own against the 911's. These cars were harmed only by their association with VW. Still they can keep up 911's even with 4 cylinders. Here is an example of 914's vs 911's at the Rennsport Reunion. http://youtu.be/RvTHJQcKzqQ
enjoy
enjoy
11-26-2011, 10:01 AM
#40
This thread was a drifter
Back to the original question. My original response was the 962. That car won the top spot consistantly for a long time. The 917s were fast, but they were too dangerous from a time when drivers seemed almost disposable. From a driver's perspective the 962 was in another league in driver survivability but, its got to be the 911 for 40+ years of racing.
The Mazda GT3 is second.
The Mazda GT3 is second.
01-08-2012, 11:36 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Back to the original question. My original response was the 962. That car won the top spot consistantly for a long time. The 917s were fast, but they were too dangerous from a time when drivers seemed almost disposable. From a driver's perspective the 962 was in another league in driver survivability but, its got to be the 911 for 40+ years of racing.
The Mazda GT3 is second.
The Mazda GT3 is second.
01-10-2012, 08:24 PM
#42
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Personal opinion, I just think it is cool that Mazda are even in this conversation.
At the higher end of US amateur endurance racing, the 25 hours of Thunderhill stands out as a bench mark event. The past several years a very well organized team with great drivers has taken a Porsche at the overall winner in that event. But to Mazda credit, here is a quote from http://www.nasa25hour.com/ “Four of the five classes that took the checker were won by a Mazda Miata or MX-5. Ten of the possible 18 podium positions were held by Mazda Miata or MX-5 competitors.”
So a conclusion one can derive from this thread is the Porsche has a racing pedigree that it should be very proud it and is still continuing it wining ways. But other makes also have a strong presents at the more grass roots level and Mazda currently has a strong showing. Whilst Mazda has a few notable highlights in professional racing (as well as BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Ford to name a few) Porsche still is the leader.
IMHO, would love to see DTM and BTCC open up to the likes of Porsche and Mazda.
At the higher end of US amateur endurance racing, the 25 hours of Thunderhill stands out as a bench mark event. The past several years a very well organized team with great drivers has taken a Porsche at the overall winner in that event. But to Mazda credit, here is a quote from http://www.nasa25hour.com/ “Four of the five classes that took the checker were won by a Mazda Miata or MX-5. Ten of the possible 18 podium positions were held by Mazda Miata or MX-5 competitors.”
So a conclusion one can derive from this thread is the Porsche has a racing pedigree that it should be very proud it and is still continuing it wining ways. But other makes also have a strong presents at the more grass roots level and Mazda currently has a strong showing. Whilst Mazda has a few notable highlights in professional racing (as well as BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Ford to name a few) Porsche still is the leader.
IMHO, would love to see DTM and BTCC open up to the likes of Porsche and Mazda.
