Help me get started in PCA racing
08-31-2011, 09:19 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
So after lap 3 TT becomes a DE session where you are just driving around buring gas and tires, though I guess you can openly pass. Problem is, to actually stay out for the whole session you will need to carry extra fuel, making your laps times completed with fresh tires a bit slower. By the time you are on light fuel, your tires are toast.
I guess I understand TT if you want to just DE your car with open passing, but if you really want to compete and win, you'll have very little track time due to the fuel/tire considerations.
I know TT is popular, so what am I missing here?
08-31-2011, 09:33 AM
#17
Fritz,
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
08-31-2011, 09:47 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Not sure where you guys are coming up with the $40K he would need to get the car "race ready"... he says he already has a seat and cage. Slap a side net and kill switch in the car and have at it (that will cost him less than a set of tires). I don't see the issue here. After a few races he'll see whether it's worth jumping ship or developing the car further to be competitive in some PCA class (not even sure where that car would be placed), or whether he'd be better off racing in another series. I think that car could be a very mean GTS4 car in NASA.
Now the real question is whether it's wise to learn how to race in a >$100K car... (but then again a lot of people would think that racing any porsche was crazy).
Now the real question is whether it's wise to learn how to race in a >$100K car... (but then again a lot of people would think that racing any porsche was crazy).
08-31-2011, 09:48 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Fritz,
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
08-31-2011, 09:48 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
08-31-2011, 09:57 AM
#22
Track record for GTS4 is 2:04.3 I think for Max Fisher at VIR
VR - no argument here. For what it's worth most cars that do well are fully caged and can race. It's just their owners are not ready or don't want to. Plus there is a cost factor - a lot of TT folks instruct so they can run for free or $20. Racing has entry fees and some aren't cheap.
08-31-2011, 10:03 AM
#23
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+1 to UKRBMW. It serves as additional test time for some, as well as tire contingency. 
For new folks it also helps develop a qualy mindset which will help transition for racing.
For new folks it also helps develop a qualy mindset which will help transition for racing.
Last edited by MelanomaMan; 08-31-2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason: re-read previous post
08-31-2011, 10:05 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Not sure where you guys are coming up with the $40K he would need to get the car "race ready"... he says he already has a seat and cage. Slap a side net and kill switch in the car and have at it (that will cost him less than a set of tires). I don't see the issue here. After a few races he'll see whether it's worth jumping ship or developing the car further to be competitive in some PCA class (not even sure where that car would be placed), or whether he'd be better off racing in another series. I think that car could be a very mean GTS4 car in NASA.
Now the real question is whether it's wise to learn how to race in a >$100K car... (but then again a lot of people would think that racing any porsche was crazy).
Now the real question is whether it's wise to learn how to race in a >$100K car... (but then again a lot of people would think that racing any porsche was crazy).
08-31-2011, 10:07 AM
#25
Race Director
TT is popular for those that dont' want to race. It is a step between normal DE and racing. TT can be done in a couple ways. 1) DE mindset with the "bonus" of competing for lap times. So you run it like a DE, but have an actual goal in mind and can compare to others. 2) I strict TT competition where you do seek best lap. That can involve low fuel and also lots of tweaking. So you go out run a session and set fast lap. Then you adjust the car a little and see if you can knock off a few tenths. It can be quite competitive.
However it is still not like racing. This year I ran a "Time Attack" Basicly a time trial with clear track and 2 timed laps. That was it. Let me tell you it is harder than it looks since you have really no room for error. Lap 1 I make slight mistake and lost time. Lap 2 I ran in to traffic and go held up. Not by much as I was let by quick, but even when you space 5 cars on track there is chance to get stacked up a bit. Anyway I ran a solid time, but not quite what I should have run given my best lap in qualy and race. However that is part of the challenge there. Not only run a good lap, but do it in 2 chances with no do overs. I have not run a time attack since mostly due to conflicts with race scheduling, but I can see the appeal for running against the clock if you do not wnat to step up and actually race.
As for safety gear it depend how hard you push. The likely hood of a single car off is similar in TT as Race and in fact similar to DE if you chose to push. Really it comes down to how hard you chose to drive relative to a single car off. As for two cars touching.... in TT that should not happen as the cars are not supposed to be racing. Nothing gained by contesting a corner so if the lap is botched by traffic is botched. No sense in fighting it. So that means the risk of car to car contact is much higher in race group. Even so most guys that run TT at high level end up with race level or near race level safety gear. It just the smart thing to do and they know that. BTW... the other reason to run TT is to be able to run a hand grenade. Basicly a car tuned to a level being fast for 5-10 mintues and then needing to back off. Most Porsche's can run hard all day long, but a highly tuned Honda or WRX or Evo might only last 10 minutes before it heat soaks and you need to back off. So for guys like this the TT format is ideal.
What I have found is that TT track records are faster than race group lap records in the same class. That abiliy to focus on just a few fast laps is worth a few tenths.
However it is still not like racing. This year I ran a "Time Attack" Basicly a time trial with clear track and 2 timed laps. That was it. Let me tell you it is harder than it looks since you have really no room for error. Lap 1 I make slight mistake and lost time. Lap 2 I ran in to traffic and go held up. Not by much as I was let by quick, but even when you space 5 cars on track there is chance to get stacked up a bit. Anyway I ran a solid time, but not quite what I should have run given my best lap in qualy and race. However that is part of the challenge there. Not only run a good lap, but do it in 2 chances with no do overs. I have not run a time attack since mostly due to conflicts with race scheduling, but I can see the appeal for running against the clock if you do not wnat to step up and actually race.
As for safety gear it depend how hard you push. The likely hood of a single car off is similar in TT as Race and in fact similar to DE if you chose to push. Really it comes down to how hard you chose to drive relative to a single car off. As for two cars touching.... in TT that should not happen as the cars are not supposed to be racing. Nothing gained by contesting a corner so if the lap is botched by traffic is botched. No sense in fighting it. So that means the risk of car to car contact is much higher in race group. Even so most guys that run TT at high level end up with race level or near race level safety gear. It just the smart thing to do and they know that. BTW... the other reason to run TT is to be able to run a hand grenade. Basicly a car tuned to a level being fast for 5-10 mintues and then needing to back off. Most Porsche's can run hard all day long, but a highly tuned Honda or WRX or Evo might only last 10 minutes before it heat soaks and you need to back off. So for guys like this the TT format is ideal.
What I have found is that TT track records are faster than race group lap records in the same class. That abiliy to focus on just a few fast laps is worth a few tenths.
08-31-2011, 11:01 AM
#26
Don't forget to deduct the lost value of the RS after it becomes a racecar, one with little marketability as a racecar. Racing trashes a car, even without a crash, the spins and close racing take a real toll on everything pretty. It becomes a tool, like it or not.
08-31-2011, 11:33 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Fritz:
You will need a current PCA membership. You will need a PCA CI to sign off on your license application. Or you could do a NASA or SCCA comp school, complete your rookie race, then apply for a PCA license as an SCCA or NASA comp license holder. To do either comp school the car you use would have to meet their safety requirements, which the cage in your RS will not since it only has single door bars. The downside is that your RS will be in "L" class, in which case you might find yourself as the only driver in class, and in group with GT1-GT3 S and R cars who are turning silly fast lap times.
You will need a current PCA membership. You will need a PCA CI to sign off on your license application. Or you could do a NASA or SCCA comp school, complete your rookie race, then apply for a PCA license as an SCCA or NASA comp license holder. To do either comp school the car you use would have to meet their safety requirements, which the cage in your RS will not since it only has single door bars. The downside is that your RS will be in "L" class, in which case you might find yourself as the only driver in class, and in group with GT1-GT3 S and R cars who are turning silly fast lap times.
Fritz,
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
Plus 1 on the TT thing it's a super way to get in a little competiton w/o the head ache and cost of racing.
Thanks for the info
The RS is good on the lap times. I might run it in either OCT or NOV TT with NASA will you be at either of those events? I may consider the GTS4 thing but will likely race the FD in NASA.
Fritz:
You will need a current PCA membership. You will need a PCA CI to sign off on your license application. Or you could do a NASA or SCCA comp school, complete your rookie race, then apply for a PCA license as an SCCA or NASA comp license holder. To do either comp school the car you use would have to meet their safety requirements, which the cage in your RS will not since it only has single door bars. The downside is that your RS will be in "L" class, in which case you might find yourself as the only driver in class, and in group with GT1-GT3 S and R cars who are turning silly fast lap times.
You will need a current PCA membership. You will need a PCA CI to sign off on your license application. Or you could do a NASA or SCCA comp school, complete your rookie race, then apply for a PCA license as an SCCA or NASA comp license holder. To do either comp school the car you use would have to meet their safety requirements, which the cage in your RS will not since it only has single door bars. The downside is that your RS will be in "L" class, in which case you might find yourself as the only driver in class, and in group with GT1-GT3 S and R cars who are turning silly fast lap times.
I just don't understand the logic of Time Trial. If I understand it correctly, only your fastest lap counts so it is basically a Quali session. The best method to Quali fast (for most of us) is to go out on low fuel and try to nail the time within the first 3 laps or so. Then we come in and park the car as tires will begin to degrade and lapped traffic becomes an issue.
So after lap 3 TT becomes a DE session where you are just driving around buring gas and tires, though I guess you can openly pass. Problem is, to actually stay out for the whole session you will need to carry extra fuel, making your laps times completed with fresh tires a bit slower. By the time you are on light fuel, your tires are toast.
I guess I understand TT if you want to just DE your car with open passing, but if you really want to compete and win, you'll have very little track time due to the fuel/tire considerations.
I know TT is popular, so what am I missing here?
So after lap 3 TT becomes a DE session where you are just driving around buring gas and tires, though I guess you can openly pass. Problem is, to actually stay out for the whole session you will need to carry extra fuel, making your laps times completed with fresh tires a bit slower. By the time you are on light fuel, your tires are toast.
I guess I understand TT if you want to just DE your car with open passing, but if you really want to compete and win, you'll have very little track time due to the fuel/tire considerations.
I know TT is popular, so what am I missing here?
Fritz,
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
Problem with PCA racing is classing. Anything with GT in front of it automatically goes in GTA - running with wicked Cup cars or GT2 - same thing.
In NASA you'd run in GTS4. Those lap times are around 2:05 at VIR for Mid Atlantic and there are about 3-5 cars at each race. I think with slicks you'd be pretty close if not already there on lap times, which would make it more fun, since it's competitive. Mid Atlantic does a great Comp School, which is what I did. After 4 races you get a permanent license and can apply for PCA license also.
Anyways, just a thought.
Jake - appeal of TT is you don't have to have a full blown race car and are still able to compete. We get a decent amount of track time. Once you get a time you're hoping for I put on some NT01s instead of Hoosiers and go run the rest of the sessions as a DE with open passing. Mainly though - it's competition with prizes and contingencies without the expense of having a full race car.
Not sure where you guys are coming up with the $40K he would need to get the car "race ready"... he says he already has a seat and cage. Slap a side net and kill switch in the car and have at it (that will cost him less than a set of tires). I don't see the issue here. After a few races he'll see whether it's worth jumping ship or developing the car further to be competitive in some PCA class (not even sure where that car would be placed), or whether he'd be better off racing in another series. I think that car could be a very mean GTS4 car in NASA.
Now the real question is whether it's wise to learn how to race in a >$100K car... (but then again a lot of people would think that racing any porsche was crazy).
Now the real question is whether it's wise to learn how to race in a >$100K car... (but then again a lot of people would think that racing any porsche was crazy).
08-31-2011, 12:12 PM
#28
Race Director
DE and TT is better for a "nice" car since you can back off when ever to preserve the car. You can do that when racing too, but it not as satisfying as feeling comfortable as flooging the car with no concerns. When racing hard... really hard you can't worry about rock chips or scratching the paint. It does not mean you look for contact or anything, but you can't worry about the car. You want to focus on racing cleaning, but never worry about getting door ding. It is hard to explain, but to me is the only way to race. I race hard and in middle of battle really have little concern for the car. It is a tool that I am using make a pass or hold position. When the race is over I concern myself with the condition of the car. If I have gap I may back off to "preserve" the car, but that is about it. Of course in a long race to finish you need to take care if you equipment, but again my race car is my tool. I use it hard and I try to not abuse it, but it really has just one purpose. Winning races. Most street cars or nice cars have purpose beyond "winning races" so you tend mentally compromise a bit on track.
08-31-2011, 12:26 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Go here and look over the info: http://pca.org/Activities/ClubRacing...gaLicense.aspx
Then immediately email Susan Shire clubrace@pca.org
She's the only one that can tell YOU exactly what YOU need to do to be able to obtain a PCA Club Race License. (period)
Then immediately email Susan Shire clubrace@pca.org
She's the only one that can tell YOU exactly what YOU need to do to be able to obtain a PCA Club Race License. (period)
08-31-2011, 12:30 PM
#30
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$400.00/weekend? Try $2,000.00 to $2,500.00. Entry fees $525.00 - $1000.00 Set of tires $1,200.00 - $1,500.00 or more. Brake pads, rotors, engine wear and tear, fuel, transport, lodging. This is the SHORT LIST.