Why We Wear Nomex
06-20-2011, 12:19 PM
#47
Nordschleife Master
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I've been wearing Oakley's Carbon X shoes, socks, and gloves for years and have never noticed any breathability issues. The newer stuff from manufacturers like Simpson and Oakley are much more comfortable than the original material....
06-20-2011, 12:24 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
06-20-2011, 12:42 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Yeah, maybe gloves and socks, but I recently wore an Oakley Carbon X shirt and I thought I was gonna die!
06-20-2011, 12:50 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
The new (?) Sparco x-cool stuff is lighter and more comfortable (and more expensive) than the older woolly stuff, and worth a try. Can't imagine going out without a balaclava. These are informative discussions, and the incident a couple years ago at Daytona prompted me to put a fire system in my car. This is a really fun thing we do, but I just won't take a chance when it comes to things we can control. My takeaway here is- more practice at getting out fast. Thanks for posting.
06-20-2011, 12:56 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Well, lol. "What I said is x, but what I meant is Y, and any idiot can figure that out." That is Kibort-like... laugh really loud out loud.
Anyway, why is no rear window in a car like the injured gentleman was driving a bad idea?
Last Fall I did some looking around Porsche forums as I was looking for ideas on fabbing a rear window for my 911. One of the things that comes up is some folks put holes in their rear windows to "let air out." Figuring it will help.
But some pointed out that the actual direction of airflow is inward. There is a great pic of a 911 at Daytona showing the plastic rear window bowed in at speed in one of the threads. Now I knew all of this a long time ago (maybe a couple of decades), but I still found guys posting pictures of holes they put in their plastic rear windows to let air out. Go figure. They see someone else on the 'net do it so they do it.
So does the rear window act as a firewall? Or, from a fire in the ***-end standpoint, is the real issue the direction of the airflow? I think fire and smoke gets naturally sucked in... so the window helps with that... until it melts.
Anyway, Dave and I can disagree philosophically, that is fine. I don't believe in being especially sensitive, but I do believe in trying to be clear if appropriate.
Shortcutting communication, in my opinion, can water down the knowledge base in our sport. That cannot help us. More shortcuts can lead to more accidents can lead to more liability and more obstacles... and so on.
Anyway, why is no rear window in a car like the injured gentleman was driving a bad idea?
Last Fall I did some looking around Porsche forums as I was looking for ideas on fabbing a rear window for my 911. One of the things that comes up is some folks put holes in their rear windows to "let air out." Figuring it will help.
But some pointed out that the actual direction of airflow is inward. There is a great pic of a 911 at Daytona showing the plastic rear window bowed in at speed in one of the threads. Now I knew all of this a long time ago (maybe a couple of decades), but I still found guys posting pictures of holes they put in their plastic rear windows to let air out. Go figure. They see someone else on the 'net do it so they do it.
So does the rear window act as a firewall? Or, from a fire in the ***-end standpoint, is the real issue the direction of the airflow? I think fire and smoke gets naturally sucked in... so the window helps with that... until it melts.
Anyway, Dave and I can disagree philosophically, that is fine. I don't believe in being especially sensitive, but I do believe in trying to be clear if appropriate.
Shortcutting communication, in my opinion, can water down the knowledge base in our sport. That cannot help us. More shortcuts can lead to more accidents can lead to more liability and more obstacles... and so on.
06-20-2011, 01:14 PM
#52
I would like to make an additional point that I don't think anyone has made. In addition to the lack of balaclava/rear window obviously contributing greatly to the incident, in my opinion a great contributor was hasty prep.
If anyone watched the long version of the video on youtube, there is some text overlay which explains in more detail the cause of the incident. Earlier in the day he had a spin due to hasty rear brake repair where the bias was not reset properly. Then, the fire itself was caused by loose bolts in the engine/trans mount which caused it to rip out and break an oil line.
I think the main message here should be that you should be very thorough and timely in your preparation, and don't beat yourself up if you miss a session or even an event because you didn't have time to prep the car properly. The car needs to have all critical nuts/bolts checked regularly. Most of us here are not racing for a prize and if you are staying up until the wee hours of the night getting your car ready the day before event, the probability of making a mistake goes up greatly.
If you don't have the time/skills to check the car out properly between events, have a *competent* shop do it. And just because someone owns a shop does not mean they are competent. I have seen A LOT of very sloppy race prep from "pro" shops. Find someone who works on a lot of racers' cars and who has a good reputation. Many high end "tuner" shops will prep some track cars, but I have seen scary stuff....
Just my 2 cents...
If anyone watched the long version of the video on youtube, there is some text overlay which explains in more detail the cause of the incident. Earlier in the day he had a spin due to hasty rear brake repair where the bias was not reset properly. Then, the fire itself was caused by loose bolts in the engine/trans mount which caused it to rip out and break an oil line.
I think the main message here should be that you should be very thorough and timely in your preparation, and don't beat yourself up if you miss a session or even an event because you didn't have time to prep the car properly. The car needs to have all critical nuts/bolts checked regularly. Most of us here are not racing for a prize and if you are staying up until the wee hours of the night getting your car ready the day before event, the probability of making a mistake goes up greatly.
If you don't have the time/skills to check the car out properly between events, have a *competent* shop do it. And just because someone owns a shop does not mean they are competent. I have seen A LOT of very sloppy race prep from "pro" shops. Find someone who works on a lot of racers' cars and who has a good reputation. Many high end "tuner" shops will prep some track cars, but I have seen scary stuff....
Just my 2 cents...
06-20-2011, 01:17 PM
#53
Drifting
Join Date: Jan 2008
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The new (?) Sparco x-cool stuff is lighter and more comfortable (and more expensive) than the older woolly stuff, and worth a try. Can't imagine going out without a balaclava. These are informative discussions, and the incident a couple years ago at Daytona prompted me to put a fire system in my car. This is a really fun thing we do, but I just won't take a chance when it comes to things we can control. My takeaway here is- more practice at getting out fast. Thanks for posting.
06-20-2011, 02:40 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Carry on.
06-20-2011, 02:43 PM
#55
Race Director
I have worn a balaclava for years. However I could never breath through it. I always pulled the single eye port down below my lower lip. This does expose my nose and upper lip. I understand that, but when it covered my mount and nose I had a harder time breathing.
06-20-2011, 03:22 PM
#56
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I would like to make an additional point that I don't think anyone has made. In addition to the lack of balaclava/rear window obviously contributing greatly to the incident, in my opinion a great contributor was hasty prep.
If anyone watched the long version of the video on youtube, there is some text overlay which explains in more detail the cause of the incident. Earlier in the day he had a spin due to hasty rear brake repair where the bias was not reset properly. Then, the fire itself was caused by loose bolts in the engine/trans mount which caused it to rip out and break an oil line.
I think the main message here should be that you should be very thorough and timely in your preparation, and don't beat yourself up if you miss a session or even an event because you didn't have time to prep the car properly. The car needs to have all critical nuts/bolts checked regularly. Most of us here are not racing for a prize and if you are staying up until the wee hours of the night getting your car ready the day before event, the probability of making a mistake goes up greatly.
If you don't have the time/skills to check the car out properly between events, have a *competent* shop do it. And just because someone owns a shop does not mean they are competent. I have seen A LOT of very sloppy race prep from "pro" shops. Find someone who works on a lot of racers' cars and who has a good reputation. Many high end "tuner" shops will prep some track cars, but I have seen scary stuff....
Just my 2 cents...
If anyone watched the long version of the video on youtube, there is some text overlay which explains in more detail the cause of the incident. Earlier in the day he had a spin due to hasty rear brake repair where the bias was not reset properly. Then, the fire itself was caused by loose bolts in the engine/trans mount which caused it to rip out and break an oil line.
I think the main message here should be that you should be very thorough and timely in your preparation, and don't beat yourself up if you miss a session or even an event because you didn't have time to prep the car properly. The car needs to have all critical nuts/bolts checked regularly. Most of us here are not racing for a prize and if you are staying up until the wee hours of the night getting your car ready the day before event, the probability of making a mistake goes up greatly.
If you don't have the time/skills to check the car out properly between events, have a *competent* shop do it. And just because someone owns a shop does not mean they are competent. I have seen A LOT of very sloppy race prep from "pro" shops. Find someone who works on a lot of racers' cars and who has a good reputation. Many high end "tuner" shops will prep some track cars, but I have seen scary stuff....
Just my 2 cents...
06-20-2011, 03:47 PM
#57
Yes - almost every nut/bolt on my cars is marked with a paint pen after final torque. This allows for a quick visual during the weekend between sessions. After each weekend they all get a wrench since they can loosen up without making an obvious move that you will see with the paint mark.
06-20-2011, 06:19 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
Dave:
I think this is what you said:
"...is a dolt to run any car, much less a highly modified car like this, w/o a rear window."
I was not attacking you... please lighten up.
In any case, I am glad you clarified for the 2-3 people whom may have read your post but may not have indicated with their own posts that they understood exactly what you meant. And in any case, that is not the point of this thread.
Anyway, regarding Nomex and suits, I was intrigued to run across a GForce ad in GRM recently where they point out the benefits of their quality/sampling process and that unnamed competitors' gear failed to meet stated specs. This really intrigues me from a safety standpoint.... implies batch testing is important...
I think this is what you said:
"...is a dolt to run any car, much less a highly modified car like this, w/o a rear window."
I was not attacking you... please lighten up.
In any case, I am glad you clarified for the 2-3 people whom may have read your post but may not have indicated with their own posts that they understood exactly what you meant. And in any case, that is not the point of this thread.
Anyway, regarding Nomex and suits, I was intrigued to run across a GForce ad in GRM recently where they point out the benefits of their quality/sampling process and that unnamed competitors' gear failed to meet stated specs. This really intrigues me from a safety standpoint.... implies batch testing is important...
