Why We Wear Nomex
06-19-2011, 01:08 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
I think the salient points about Nomex/fire resistant safety equipment are pretty well expressed in elements of this thread.
I rarely disagree with what Mr. Raptor posts... but I cannot agree with his comments on rear windows. In my experience of the last 24 years I have seen many highly modified cars without rear windows that are well-prepared from a safety standpoint.
For example, the red car in the picture below is a 1969 Porsche 911 with a history that I believe includes an IMSA Sebring race or two. It has no rear window.
It is driven by Gary Walton who works at Jerry Woods Enterprises. Rich Walton also drives the car from time to time. It is very capable and well-prepped. Gary has been racing since 1965 and is the Chief Steward for the Porsche Racing Challenge Series.
Gary and Rich are very safety conscious, as is Jerry Woods. They are certainly not "dolts." Running without a rear window in my opinion is not stupid. How safe a particular car is... depends.
I rarely disagree with what Mr. Raptor posts... but I cannot agree with his comments on rear windows. In my experience of the last 24 years I have seen many highly modified cars without rear windows that are well-prepared from a safety standpoint.
For example, the red car in the picture below is a 1969 Porsche 911 with a history that I believe includes an IMSA Sebring race or two. It has no rear window.
It is driven by Gary Walton who works at Jerry Woods Enterprises. Rich Walton also drives the car from time to time. It is very capable and well-prepped. Gary has been racing since 1965 and is the Chief Steward for the Porsche Racing Challenge Series.
Gary and Rich are very safety conscious, as is Jerry Woods. They are certainly not "dolts." Running without a rear window in my opinion is not stupid. How safe a particular car is... depends.
Last edited by Mahler9th; 11-08-2013 at 01:12 PM.
06-19-2011, 02:24 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
The red car also has no roof. 
The point is, if you have a roof but no rear window, air currents will send flames into the rear window and thus onto the back of the driver.
A car with no roof generally will not have this issue.
The point is, if you have a roof but no rear window, air currents will send flames into the rear window and thus onto the back of the driver.
A car with no roof generally will not have this issue.
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 06-19-2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason: typos
06-19-2011, 10:17 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
06-20-2011, 12:15 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
I was not kidding. I wanted to give Mr. Raptor a chance to clarify. When you refer to someone who got injured in an accident a dolt on the internet, I think it prudent to be clear. Not everyone would understand what he meant.
In any case, dolt or not, I am glad the racer is recovering and willing to share his experiences with others in the interest of safety.
People make assumptions and take short cuts communicating a lot on the internet. In this case I am glad Mr. Raptor clarified his position.
In any case, dolt or not, I am glad the racer is recovering and willing to share his experiences with others in the interest of safety.
People make assumptions and take short cuts communicating a lot on the internet. In this case I am glad Mr. Raptor clarified his position.
06-20-2011, 01:09 AM
#35
Nordschleife Master
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I was not kidding. I wanted to give Mr. Raptor a chance to clarify. When you refer to someone who got injured in an accident a dolt on the internet, I think it prudent to be clear. Not everyone would understand what he meant.
In any case, dolt or not, I am glad the racer is recovering and willing to share his experiences with others in the interest of safety.
People make assumptions and take short cuts communicating a lot on the internet. In this case I am glad Mr. Raptor clarified his position.
In any case, dolt or not, I am glad the racer is recovering and willing to share his experiences with others in the interest of safety.
People make assumptions and take short cuts communicating a lot on the internet. In this case I am glad Mr. Raptor clarified his position.
Actually I think my "special" x-wife could have understood his point. Even Tage admits he was a dolt to remove the rear window so there's no reason to defend that action. The guys lucky to be alive. Have you seen his photos he posted on the NASA thread?
06-20-2011, 08:50 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
I was not kidding. I wanted to give Mr. Raptor a chance to clarify. When you refer to someone who got injured in an accident a dolt on the internet, I think it prudent to be clear. Not everyone would understand what he meant.
In any case, dolt or not, I am glad the racer is recovering and willing to share his experiences with others in the interest of safety.
People make assumptions and take short cuts communicating a lot on the internet. In this case I am glad Mr. Raptor clarified his position.
In any case, dolt or not, I am glad the racer is recovering and willing to share his experiences with others in the interest of safety.
People make assumptions and take short cuts communicating a lot on the internet. In this case I am glad Mr. Raptor clarified his position.
....
06-20-2011, 10:20 AM
#40
Race Director
Anyway Tage make 2 mistakes. 1) no balaclava, 2) No rear window. These are clear in hindsight. What he did do right was practice getting out of his car fast. It could have been worse without it. He also ran a fire system and not just handheld bottle. You can see how the firesystem helped buy him a sometime.
I saw and talked with Tage earlier this month at the track. He is generally in good spirits. He has scars on his face that he hopes will heal up and blend away. He probably will have scars on the back of his neck for life. There he just want so to make sure the skin does not tighten up preventing full motion.
The reason Tage chose to share this with racing community is a reminder and learning experience. Fire despite being pretty rare these days can happen when it does it can happen fast. There is a reason racing requires firesuits, but beyond that this sort of incident could happen in DE too. What failed on the car as I have been told was motor mount that when failed allowed the engine to shift. That riped out and oil line dumped oil all over the exhaust starting a fire. That sort of thing could happen in DE just as easily as racing as it was a mechical issue.
How many of you where nomex in DE? How many wear a balaclava even if rules don't require you to do so. How many can get out of their car in 8 seconds full belted in? So while Tage did not do everything right there is still much to learn from this situation. That is the reason it is out here for all of us to see.
BTW.... Tage does not visit this forum much (if at all), but still THANK YOU for share this experience. It will hopefully make us more aware of the risks and our safetey gear and proceedures.
06-20-2011, 10:26 AM
#41
Race Director
However lets not let this thread turn into a window pissing match. The issue is fire is very nasty stuff and nevery take it lightly.
06-20-2011, 10:33 AM
#44
Drifting
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A side point here (in addition to wearing a balaclava) is the value of keeping your visor down. This driver was lucky that he was able to flip his down. If he had been unconscious or if he did not have a full-face helmet, it would be a different story. In a closed-cockpit car, I can see the temptation to keep it open since nothing is likely to hit you in the face.
06-20-2011, 10:42 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
I can't stand that Carbon-X stuff, it sure looks and feels the part, but I find it impossibly hot to wear and has no breathability, I've gone back to more traditional nomex with far more comfort