Attention all VIR drivers
06-13-2011, 12:32 PM
#31
Race Director
At least in my car I stay off the gators there and just about everywhere at Miller. Kills exit speed bouncing over them and putting two wheels off track (in the dirt) there is mistake not the line. In my first picture I drive with 2 wheels behind the crub. Profile is flat and there is good pavement there so there is no downside. I do try to keep at least 2 tires on curb at least to not "cut" the course.
06-13-2011, 01:33 PM
#32
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In the past three weeks, I've seen three people cut down tires on the inside sidewall or at the joint between the tread face and the sidewall "hooking" the inside tire inside the inside curb.... At two different tracks.
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
06-13-2011, 02:06 PM
#33
Race Director
On your example, I believe you're correct, but I beg to differ on the "no downside" for many other tracks.
In the past three weeks, I've seen three people cut down tires on the inside sidewall or at the joint between the tread face and the sidewall "hooking" the inside tire inside the inside curb.... At two different tracks.
In the past three weeks, I've seen three people cut down tires on the inside sidewall or at the joint between the tread face and the sidewall "hooking" the inside tire inside the inside curb.... At two different tracks.
06-13-2011, 03:40 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am not going to comment on VIR since I can see both sides to the issue, and have driven (and coached) the climbing esses both ways. I can definitely appreciate VIR's position on this, although it does sound as if they got some total **** fill dirt recently and it killed some windshields.
Anyway, I will be there for a week starting July 4th.....it will be interesting to see how they police this. And I look forward to meeting Kerrigan!
06-13-2011, 04:07 PM
#35
Race Director
the interesting thing about curbing in race group is that its configuration does impact your enjoyment of the track. Firebird Main (where my smooth curbing photo comes from) has a number of spots on track where you can really gain time by using the curbs. If you don't use the curbs you will be slower than those that do. So if you race you are pretty much forced into it. In some places those curbs are nasty and bumpy. Not so much as they cause you go slower, but they do beat up the car. After I race there I was feel like beat the car to hell over the curbs. Not my favorite thing to do, but if you are going to race... well you have to go for it.
Places like Miller however have much nicer curbing such that using in places makes the car faster and in others there is little to gain by beating up the car. I tend to like that alot where I can run the car hard not feel like I am having to crash over bumps all the time.
That said it can be really fun to hop over a few curbs from time to time using every inch of the road and then some.
As for VIR I can see their point as track and especially for DE guys. Keep it on the offical track surface. For racing however... If cutting the curb is worth 0.5 seconds go for it. As long as you don't get black flagged or wreck the car push it as far as you can. I think we have all been to tracks that used cones, bollards or other semi-moveable track delineators to keep cars on track surface in chicane. 9 times out of 10 those things get "moved" in few laps and every one goes back to using that bit of non offical track surface. What beating up about the car? Drive a POS that is cheap to fix let her fly!
Places like Miller however have much nicer curbing such that using in places makes the car faster and in others there is little to gain by beating up the car. I tend to like that alot where I can run the car hard not feel like I am having to crash over bumps all the time.
That said it can be really fun to hop over a few curbs from time to time using every inch of the road and then some.
As for VIR I can see their point as track and especially for DE guys. Keep it on the offical track surface. For racing however... If cutting the curb is worth 0.5 seconds go for it. As long as you don't get black flagged or wreck the car push it as far as you can. I think we have all been to tracks that used cones, bollards or other semi-moveable track delineators to keep cars on track surface in chicane. 9 times out of 10 those things get "moved" in few laps and every one goes back to using that bit of non offical track surface. What beating up about the car? Drive a POS that is cheap to fix let her fly!
06-13-2011, 04:24 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
06-13-2011, 05:17 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I for one am glad they will try to enforce it.
Had a guy in a 325 a few years ago who took the uphill esses in a straight line. I could not get him to understand that he was putting 2 wheels off. He said someone told him that was the fast way through the esses...dumbass...Took him out in my car (similar HP) and took 15 seconds off his best time...
On another note that will cost some big bucks. Do they have it?
Had a guy in a 325 a few years ago who took the uphill esses in a straight line. I could not get him to understand that he was putting 2 wheels off. He said someone told him that was the fast way through the esses...dumbass...Took him out in my car (similar HP) and took 15 seconds off his best time...
On another note that will cost some big bucks. Do they have it?
Too bad he blamed the track for HIS mistake. Of course, that's too easy.
It's the loose nut behind the wheel. Or "the Auberlen line."
And the fastest line is not "wheels in the dirt," unless you're in a Spec Miata or Spec E30. Especially in a proper race car.
Hats off to Craig Stanton in his video where he drives totally over the dirt in 5A, 6 and 6A, but others are quicker in GT in the same car and don't go off the pavement or existing curbing.
And yes, I was hired to place and consult on the NJMP TBolt curbs. The Lightning curbs are more like the VIR curb design. I placed the VIR curbs in 1999 and they're fine. It's a driver's issue...
I agree the policy is unwieldy and puts the onus on the F&C folks instead of the event organizer, where it should be. But you should approach Kerrigan.
He's a good Director of Track Operations and he's trying to look out for ALL the track users. He's also always open to discussion.
I speak in NO OFFICIAL CAPACITY at VIR. YMMV.
It's the loose nut behind the wheel. Or "the Auberlen line."
And the fastest line is not "wheels in the dirt," unless you're in a Spec Miata or Spec E30. Especially in a proper race car.
Hats off to Craig Stanton in his video where he drives totally over the dirt in 5A, 6 and 6A, but others are quicker in GT in the same car and don't go off the pavement or existing curbing.
And yes, I was hired to place and consult on the NJMP TBolt curbs. The Lightning curbs are more like the VIR curb design. I placed the VIR curbs in 1999 and they're fine. It's a driver's issue...
I agree the policy is unwieldy and puts the onus on the F&C folks instead of the event organizer, where it should be. But you should approach Kerrigan.
He's a good Director of Track Operations and he's trying to look out for ALL the track users. He's also always open to discussion.
I speak in NO OFFICIAL CAPACITY at VIR. YMMV.
http://vimeo.com/10887590
As long as VIR doesn't use the Road America curbing, I hate those things.
06-13-2011, 06:07 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Swing on by end-of day for a cold one.
06-13-2011, 06:36 PM
#42
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06-13-2011, 06:42 PM
#43
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Peter, this is what I consider a "dirt" line.
http://vimeo.com/10887590
As long as VIR doesn't use the Road America curbing, I hate those things.
http://vimeo.com/10887590
As long as VIR doesn't use the Road America curbing, I hate those things.
Yep.
06-13-2011, 06:50 PM
#44
Race Director
Peter, this is what I consider a "dirt" line.
http://vimeo.com/10887590
As long as VIR doesn't use the Road America curbing, I hate those things.
http://vimeo.com/10887590
As long as VIR doesn't use the Road America curbing, I hate those things.
Seems like VIR will come-up with something. Some will love it and some will hate it. In the end it will be the same course for everyone and you guys will adapt.