Mike in Chi

Yep. I try to get what I can out of them, also, but believe the best cycle is the first.

Overall, just responding to Pmason's original question:

"what is the typical tire strategy for a race weekend?"

I observe guys like Crossman, Hupfer, Constantineau, Inglot, Turek, etc going out for qualifying or race on stickers. That seems to be the strategy for the guys at the front.

How many extra session are you typically getting with heat cycling them?

I typically get 2 -3 race weekends out of them. I wish I could get new Hoosiers every four cycles. But if I could afford that, I'd probably be droving a Cup car

paradisenb

I race with and receive coaching from a long time pro driver/lead mechanic/team owner (retired now). He buys, and recommends that I buy, a new set of tires for each race. He uses the stickers for qualifying, sprint and enduro that weekend then uses those same tires for practice at the next race. Then throws them away.
He says I will never get up to speed if I don't run on fresh rubber. My little experience bares this out. I don't think a driver can get within 2-4 secs of the leaders without new rubber. You may feel a lot less tired Sunday night if you finish mid-pack or close to, as opposed to DAL.

If you can swing it, pmason, buy new tires each race weekend. You could keep the new/est ones and run them in the sprints for 2 weekends and then use them for practice a couple of weekends. That would lower the per race expense.

SG_M3

It depends what your goals are, if they are go to fast and win, then wasting that first heat cycle is hurting you. If you need stretch your tires past 6-8 heat cycles, then I would honestly look at a different tire than a hoosier or hankook.

Also remember, 1 heat cycle from one drive/car isn't comparable to a heat cycle from another driver/car. At Mid Ohio I had a set of 8 heat cycle hankooks off my car, they were dead. I took a competitors 15 heat cycle tires and we faster.

Quinlan

So, for the benefit of the guys like me - when you guys say the first heat cycle is the fastest, are you talking about "green" tires, or are you buying them "heat cycled" (ie tire rack heat cycling), and then the first cycle is the fastest?

Martin S.

We see in this string that some feel that Hankooks are as good as/fast as Hoosiers. I recently broke in a set of Hankooks Z 214, trying to follow directions. I may have had them a little under inflated, but they in no way felt as good as a set of sticker Hoosiers. I have subsequently increased the TP, they feel better, but once again, not as good as Hoosiers.

I am now going to try out a set of Kumho 710 tires. They seem to be the fast ticket these days in DOT tires..

Next set of Hoosiers, I just may heat cycle them....if you buy them from our sponsor Tire Rack, I believe they will heat cycle them for you.

NT-01, incredible tire...wear is great, not as fast as Hoosiers....but then again, maybe I am self limiting here, perhaps they are as fast as Hoosiers? I doubt it.....

A possible strategy is to use the Hoosiers for qualifying and a Hankook or NT-01 for the race. The Hoosiers will get you a better starting position...then defend your position on NT-01, or????

SG_M3

"green" or new sticker tires, not heat cycled at all.

M758

I have to agree with this. I have been racing since 2002 and while I never raced on hoosier crack pipe I also try to never race or practice on crap tires. For me my Toyo's last a along time so that helps with budget, but I still get them to cycle out. Every set of Toyo's I have run have cycled out first (unless I trashed a tire due to flat spotting). These tires when they go off a crap and it is pointless to keep driving on them. Sure in DE land they may be fine, but in race situation you learn nothing. The car won't stick well and you will never learn the true limit of the car when you have limited grip. They can be good to practice car control skills, but tell you very little about how to run a faster lap for race time. Even the RA-1 when cycled out is 1-3 seconds slower per lap than a good tire. Some times I see new guys or slower guys trying to learn on crap tires and it is false economy as they just never get fast that way.

Heck there have been a couple times I have run a practice day on cycled out rubber and other getting some basic seat time and doing some fun slides it is nearly useless.

I don't know how much Hoosiers drop off, but when they are slow you will not learn anything. You are just turning laps. So when do you know you are ready for good tires? When you see nice jump in speed from the old ones and instant tell the difference. Also when you have guys that by using new tires you can race hard with it is time to use them.

Truthfully if you can't afford fresh hoosiers it is probably better to get a cheaper longer lasting tire even if it is slower. At least then you will spend more time on good rubber rather than old crappy rubber. The old stuff can easly induce odd handling at speed and never allow you to push to 100% of the capability of the car. Racing is about compeition on track, but also about getting the maximum from your equipment. Just like you can still get 100% from a motor 10 hp down on power you can still get 100% from slower tire that is still in is useable life.

BTW.... This one reason I don't like open tire classes as it forces everyone to run the fastest shortest wearing tire to be competitive. Spec tire classes or even classes like NASA's PT where you gain extra mod points for useing a "leser" tire allows those that can't afford hoosiers to have chance for the duration of a season.


Oh... I also have a tire stratagey for running TOYO RA-1's. Just because one set will last me 1/2 a season does not mean I don't have stratagey for using them. It just very different from what you would do with some other tires.

MelanomaMan

+1 to NCC's post above. If this is your rookie season I would use part/all of this season to do your homework. I didn't expect to come out competitive in my first season, just wanted to get up to speed and get to know the regulars.

We tried heat cycling (not from Tire Rack. Probably a different thread for that) and just running straight out of the gate. The cycling might buy us an extra 3-4heat cycles but not at the quickest pace. FWIW, our R6's always heat cycle out (15-18 cycles) before they wear down which I hear is common.

It's good advice from the others here to use your scrubs/old tires for practice, then stickers for qualy and race. We use NT01's and old R6's for our practice tires.

Good luck in your first season. Keep us posted on how it goes!

Ritter v4.0

Anything in practice.
Stickers for qual and sprints. Decent used tires (previous w/e's stickers) for enduro (ideally you cord, then bin them at the flag).

TheOtherEric

The only way I'd agree with that is if Hoosiers lose 2+ seconds by their 8th heat cycle and 4 secs by their 12th heat cycle. Is that what you're seeing?

If that were true across the board, then yeah, NT01 or RA1 would be a better choice for someone looking to get 12 heat cycles, since they're probably just 2 sec slower than Hoosiers at their best.

M758

It is hard to learn much when every time you run the tires just get slower and slower. If you start an event on heat cycle 3 and finish on heat cycle 12 you expect to be 2 seconds a lap slower right? But you are learning so should be 2 seconds a lap faster right? Hmm kind of hard to really learn that way.

pmason

Brian, correct, this season is a learning season. Like when I kart raced years (15+) ago my goal was to be solidly mid pack, I surpass my goal in that I was mid-tail of the lead pack.
That said like others have said, it seems the default tire to have is the Hoosiers. Hence why I figured I pretty much needed to run them. I have run NT01's in the past for DEs and really liked them. Maybe I will get a set of NT01's for DE/Practice.

SG_M3

In my experience, 4-5 heat cycles they are 1-1.5 sec off, by 8-10 they are dead.

FredC

Advice specific to R6s (all i know) and based on my personal experience/observations in PCA CR....

Use your best used tires for sessions which don't count for your grid position of race 1. As for new tires, you will maximize your chances of success with them in qualifying if you used them once before and were able to adjust pressures at the end of the session (it's amazing how many folks go out on stickers in qualifying or to race only to discover that pressures were way sub-optimal...). If you don't have the chance to do one pre-session, then go out on stickers for qualifying... try to come in after a few laps to check pressures and go back out (that's something you won't have the luxury of doing in a sprint however... you could do it in an Enduro...).

My 2 cents. Good luck.

M758

Maybe best to just run on NT01's for racing too. Hoosiers will need a different set-up and different driving style to make use of them. So changes are if you dail in technique and set-up for NT01's you will not make 100% use of Hoosiers and just burn up cash. I know if I put Hoosiers on my 944 spec I will not get 100% from them without changing alignment settings, sway bars and adjusting technique. I will see a lap time gain, but I will still be given up time for not optimizing for extra hoosier grip because my car is optimized for the RA-1. Mixing tires is not the idea. I cannot even mix RA-1 and R888 as the RA-1 uses more negative camber than the R888 and the car will have different balance on each set of tires unless I also tweak camber. Plus I need to be more gentle on the R888 vs the RA-1 so my driving style needs ajustment. I am not good enough to jump between the tires during the course of weekend.

Probalby best to do a year on NT01's for practice and race. Sure you will give up lap time, but you can learn get the max from the tires 100% of the time. Once you can get 100% from the NT01's and the chassis. You jump to Hoosiers and start to make the best from them.